Breakoffs....

[Paul F]

I keep suffering the heartbreak of breakoffs, I lost two expensive lures this past Saturday on 6lb Trilene and two very nice fish... As any fisherman can relate to, that is frustrating on many levels. Because I know I lost the fish, the lure and then there is some poor fish swimming around with my 10 dollar crankbait stuck in its mouth.

 

I got out today to wade a stretch of the Duper that I had not yet checked out and I was really out just exploring but I tied on a rooster tail to fish along the way. I didn't catch even a small one for well over an hour of fishing and then I found a wider and fairly deep section of water that I decided to fish hard for a while and then turn back. I eventually hooked into something very large, and to avoid a repeat of last Saturday I had the drag set loose. I carefully played the fish out and was able to eventually get it close enough to get a look at it, And no sooner than I did it made a few small lunges and broke off.

 

I really, truly, strongly dislike mono except for the fact that it is clear and doesn't spook fish as much as braided line does. Half of my arsenal of rods and reels have braided lines on them in various colors and strengths. It doesn't break easily, it has no memory and it is not as susceptible to breakoffs due to line twist.

 

When I got back to my truck all I could think about was how bummed I was... Maybe that was that 20 Incher I've been after? On the drive home I realized that I had an extra spool for that rod and reel spooled with 5lb Power Pro.... But then I started wondering, Is the 5lb braid actually stronger than the 6lb mono?

 

What does everyone think about this? Is the braid actually stronger than the mono despite being rated for less weight?

 

 

[eugene f collins]

I constantly cut 2-3 foot of line off, when using mono. Sometimes more, depending on how the line feels.

I feel one nick in the line, and i start cutting line and retieing.... I recently ran out of 6 lb mono and purchased 6 lb braid by suffix,

good stuff so far. I use a soft 6-6 light action rod, the braid has helped a bit, NO lost lures!

[Paul F]

I constantly cut 2-3 foot of line off, when using mono. Sometimes more, depending on how the line feels.

I feel one nick in the line, and i start cutting line and retieing.... I recently ran out of 6 lb mono and purchased 6 lb braid by suffix,

good stuff so far. I use a soft 6-6 light action rod, the braid has helped a bit, NO lost lures!

 

I'm the same way! As soon as I feel a knick, I start cutting a re-tying. Suffix is the stuff to have, it holds its color VERY well and even after tons of abuse still looks new.

[mattyvac]

I love the super lines, especially Fireline. It lasts forever, and if you need a subtle presentation, you can tie in any mono leader to suit your needs. Fireline is thinner than mono for it's test, so it sinks better. And when I use the mono leader, it kind of balances out the negatives that adding a swivel and/or mono leader in-line give you.

 

Important: NOT ALL LINES WORK WELL WITH ALL KNOTS!! Some knot practice is a good idea when changing line types. Some line just doesn't like certain knots, so check which knot works best when you try a new line. If you re-tie a lot, just be sure ALL your knots are tightened down. Last August I was using mono, and I got careless. I didn't use enough wraps on the trilene knot or make sure the knot was really tight. That lure was gone, along with the last fish of the day. All I had left was that little curl on the end of the line.

 

Once you tie Fireline or any line with a Palomar knot, you're done. Plus, although the Palomar consumes an inch or so more line per tie than your average knot, it's easy to tie quickly, and is more reliable than some other popular knots.

 

Eugene has it right - If you really like the line you're using, just monitor your line and carefully re-tie as needed. Otherwise, upgrade to a superior line.

 

It doesn't matter what the test or material your line is made of if the knot fails.

[Guest rich mc]

also check the rod tip guide. any grove will ruin the line fast, braid or mono.rich

[skappel1]

I am a clear water fisherman and only use braided line for such presentations as flipping and pitching. I also use a 2ft leader of fluorocarbon on my braided line as well. Depending on the presentation depends on what line size. You can get away with stronger braid due to its line size. I use PowerPro, 20lb = 6lb diameter. If your keen on using mono like so many are, you can put a small amount of fluorocarbon as a leader for that as well. Fluorocarbon by nature is really clear due to its properties effected by light penetration. I run all my spinning reels with a 80:20 split of P-Line's 8lb fluoroclear and 6lb. fluorocarbon. This helps maintain the line on the spool instead of spinning all over the place. You can up the size to maybe 8lb also in fluorocarbon to get a stronger line. This is what has worked for me this year. Hope you find an answer, it hurts to loose fish to broken lines and lost lures. Especially if your throwing Lucky Crafts! Good luck!

[John Loebach]

I use 20/6 power pro or fireline with florocarbon tippet tied with back to back uni knots. Upgrade your # test if using mono in rivers to at least 8# as you have less control over how much strain is put on the line in current. Tippet of 8 to 12# will not deter strikes & if it affects action use a loop knot. Retie frequently. My first choice for fly tippet is 1X mono(12#) or floro(13.5# same diameter)for smallies. These fish are not leader shy & I hate to leave hooks in the fish.

[Kev-mo]

I started out using 6-8 pound mono. Got real tired of break offs real quick. A seasoned river rat seemed to have no problem catching fish on 15-17 pound mono. I switched to 12 pound mono. That helped a lot although it would still get nicked when using cranks and bumping bottom. I did need to upsize my reel to handle the larger diameter line though. This year I finally tried braid. PP red 20/6 no leaders. Catches fish just fine and it seems to take a beating. I do take off 6-12 inches if I'm throwing cranks or get really wrapped in a tree but it's pretty strong stuff. In fact the only thing I don't like is if I get snagged and can't get to it I think I'll have to cut the line as it's too strong.

 

Tried some Seagar fluoro for leader material. It worked pretty good but it needs to be watched as it got brittle (quicker than I expected) and snapped off right at or above the knot on a cast. Thankfully my lure floated back down to me.

 

Palomar knot is the best for braid and also won knots wars. Best knot overall (IMO).

[Norm M]

Beef up your line choices, the fish don't care. If you are worried about losing depth with increased line diameter, simply use a crank that runs deeper than necessary for that spot. 17 lb mono has worked for me for a long time

[Mike G]

"Is the 5lb braid actually stronger than the 6lb mono?"

 

Though it looks a little odd, that is a good question. For some time I have known that all 6 lb lines are not equal. Though 6 lbs looks absolute, 6 lb line will usually break in a range from say 5-8 lbs. If one adds variables like age and wear and tear, the range gets even broader. So lets just talk about new lines. It seems like most manufacturers label their line on the low side. 6 lb is probably a minimum breaking strength. ANDE is an exception being eslpecially designed for line class record fishing. For ANDE 6 lb is a maximum breaking strength because you would be disqualified if your line samples break at more than 6 lbs. This, I think, is a bit theoretical.

 

Like others I favor 10/4 Fireline with a 10 lb flouro leader about the length of my rod. The Fireline gives me a light running line for good casting. The leader gives me low vis and good abrasion resistance. Uni-uni or the new J-knot is a good way to connect the two materials.

[Jim J]

6lb mono is too light for river smallmout fishing and you're finding that out. The fish and lures you're losing are telling you that.

 

Very few river smallmouth guys go that light. (see Eric's post)

 

You can pull a truck with 20lb braid and you're only fishing for 2lb fish.

 

10lb braid, Suffix, PowerPro, etc.

 

It has the line diameter of 2lb mono which is thinner than the mono you're throwing if you're worried about the clear water factor.

 

The other thing some guys do is tie a fluorocarbon leader.

[Norm M]

if you are that worried about use straight fluro. i'm playing with 12lb vanish right now, no problems casting with spinning gear.

[scotth]

overall, i have found 20/6 power pro to be very accomadating in most river presentations..fireline holds memory too much and flourocarbon sinks (if your afraid of snags)..tie straight to lure/hook..a leader is just one more knot you need to worry about..does a fish see the line? probably. does he associate it to danger, i doubt it. but that's up to you and your confidence level..i've tried leaders (too many breakoffs)and have found they don't make that much difference so i quit using them. you can use power pro/braid for a couple years on the same reel which will also save you money..

[Scott Ferguson]

I fish clear water a lot and always use superlines. I never use a leader. There are a lot of people think fish know what line is and if they see it that it may keep them from biting. I don't think fish are that smart. If they were, I'd think that the heavy wire on a spinner bait or multiple treble hooks on a crankbait would also have a negative effect. If fish were that smart, they would probably never eat anything that doesn't look exactly like real bait.

I find leaders to be a lot of extra trouble. Joining a thin braid to mono or fluoro can be tricky. If you don't a good knot, it will be a weak link and cause you to lose more fish and baits. The knot also gets hung up in your guides and reduces the length of your cast. Keep it simple and try tieing braid or Fireline directly to your lure.

In the end, you have to decide which YOU prefer. If you have more confidence in clear line, you will stick with it longer than something you have little faith in. That will make it work better for you.

[Paul Trybul]

I heard it quoted on this site awhile back and I complete attend the school of "death before mono". I'll include a full spool of flourocarbon in that category too. I'm also talking about river smallmouth fishing. If you go with a 8 or 10# fireline or powerpro, you will be fine in most bass fishing situations in our region. They will not be line shy and you won't get seriously outfishing by your partner using mono or even a flouro leader. Well you actually might get outfished but if your using a 8-10# superline but it won't be because of the line.

 

I also don't understand why some of you guys gear up with 20# superlines. In my opinion that is overkill for smallmouth fishing. I can see if you're fishing largemouth in heavy slop or bigger fish like carp, pike or catfish but not river smallmouth. That 20# stuff doesn't cast as well, is very hard on your rods and reels and won't break off very easy when you get the big snag.

 

I can really only make a case for mono on super clear high pressured lakes and trout fishing and that would only be on certain days. I've caught smallmouth bass in the crystal clear lakes of Sylvania and brook trout in the clear mountain streams of Wyoming using 8# fireline no leader, no problem.

[Paul F]

I am glad to see that there were many people who weighed in on this topic... I was discussing this exact subject with a good friend of mine yesterday night while we were fishing the river by his house.

 

Proof in itself that the 5lb braid is stronger came when I cast too far and got snagged into a tree. I know for a fact that given the ammount of force I applied to remove my lure from the tree the mono would have broken... No doubt in my mind actually. But I was using braid and I was actually pulling on it so hard that the line damn near cut my fingers off. Needless to say, I have been fishing my braid for the past couple days. And I gotta say, It seems like I am getting less overall hookups but when I am getting into anything decent I don't fear I am going to lose the fish and the lure. Maybe I outta just start taking my medium heavy out with 10lb mono on it out?

[Norm M]

I'd go heavier than 10lb with a medium heavy rod. In fact I use 17lb trilene xt or mccoys mean green with medium action. Like I said, I'm played around with a spool with 12lb fluro right now on spinning tackle and no issues.

 

I've broke off on snags but really can't remember the last time I broke off a lure on a bass. Getting bit off by a gar, well that's different.

 

The line doesn't matter to the fish, it matters to us. Braid, fluro, copoly, mono it's what you have cofidence in. Shoot look at how thick fly line is, if that doesn't spook them passing over or thru the water column in the case of sinking lines, any other line surely won't.

 

One other thing to consider if you use too light of line, it will take you longer to land the fish. That contributes to lactic acid buildup which can cause delayed mortality.

[Mike G]

Yes this is a good discussion on lines. Here's my 3 cents.

 

About four years ago, I spooled two spools of line to be used on my Medium Heavy spinning outfit using the same open face spinning reel. One was 8# Trilene XL; one was 8# Vanish. Here is what I found. The XL was easiest to manage. The Vanish was more springy or wirey. I had to exercise more care with slack line to avoid loops and subsequent snarls. It wasn't that bad so I figured the extra sensitivity, better abraision resistance, and lower visibility of the Vanish was worth the extra effort if I wanted a mono type line.

 

Next I am thinking about replacing the 12# Tripple Fish on my bait caster with 10 or 12# Vanish. I am choosing Vanish for economy reasons. Any comments on this?

 

Finally, I have a friend who tried Fireline. He didn't like it because, being a line watcher, he could not see it as well as the mono he was used to using. He also did not like it because he thought the fish could see it better than similar lb test mono. Did I miss something here?

[Steve S.]

Just spooled up my baitcaster with Spiderwire Invisibraid; 15 lb test/4 lb diameter. So far so good, casts a mile and has great sensitivity. I can cast my Sammy just as far as I could with my spinning gear, which is now spooled with Fireline 10 lb. The jury is still out as I only have about 4 hours of use thus far.

 

As for line watching, perhaps there is an even trade-off between decreased line visibility (I think they may have some more visible superlines now) and line sensitivity. The superlines are by far more sensitive than any mono, copolymer or fluoro.

 

Still haven't found a fluoro I like, though I never liked superlines/braids before now either.

[Scott Ferguson]

Finally, I have a friend who tried Fireline. He didn't like it because, being a line watcher, he could not see it as well as the mono he was used to using. He also did not like it because he thought the fish could see it better than similar lb test mono. Did I miss something here?

 

One of the reasons I use Fireline is because I can see it much better than mono when using plastics. It lays on top of the water so when a fish touches my bait, I see the line twitch. I would probably miss at least half the pickups if I was using a line that sinks. Granted, Fireline is so thin that during low light conditions it can be difficult to see, but most of the time, it's a big advantage.

[Bterrill]

I also don't understand why some of you guys gear up with 20# superlines. In my opinion that is overkill for smallmouth fishing. I can see if you're fishing largemouth in heavy slop or bigger fish like carp, pike or catfish but not river smallmouth. That 20# stuff doesn't cast as well, is very hard on your rods and reels and won't break off very easy when you get the big snag.

 

 

 

Bingo. Won't breakoff a lure. That's your answer. You simply pull straight back with the rod not involved and hand on the spool. Breaks at the knot or you get your lure back 9/10. Thinner braid cuts bark easier. You want to use heavier line around the logjams where the big ones are.

 

As for the 10/2 braid. I've snapped a Sammy off on it about 8 times this year, also had abraided line leave tubes in fishes mouths. Casts a long way, but also goes away back towards mono problems.

 

15/4 braid would be the perfect river smallmouth line except for the tendency to free less lures snags. So the line I choose has a lot to do with water clarity and cast distance needed/kind of cover I'm working.

 

I still use mono in February when braid freezes.