fishing nesting bass

[tjtroester]

http://www.outdoorcanada.ca/Fishing-for-nesting-bass

[Kev-mo]

Good article!

[ronk]

Probably the only answer regrettably is to have a closed season. It would make it easier not to fish for 6 weeks or so knowing you didn't have a choice. Even bluegills can be affected. I know of several lakes that had healthy populations of big 'gills that I don't bother with anymore.

[Mike Clifford]

I wasn't able to determine how many states have a season for black bass from a Google search. Anybody??

It does seem like a logical approach.

Not sure how it is enforced.

Consider that people are casting flies in a creek where trout are introduced,the IDNR supports the stockings and this same creek is used by spawning smallmouth. A topic I've ranted about in the past as being maybe the most irresponsible fisheries management debacle in this entire state.

They can't know for certain what species an angler is targeting.

[tjtroester]

mc, around here the law is enforced on the basis of possession, you release the trout or the bass. personally, I believe fishing over spawning beds at all should be banned. timothy

[Mike Clifford]

That makes sense.

The fact remains though that the IDNR encourages people to stomp all over the beds and fish for anything that swims by adding the trout to the creek. An invasive species. Brilliant.

There is no logical explanation as to why this continues to take place every Spring.

[tjtroester]

I agree that is the circumstance we find. too, I believe destruction of spawning beds and fishing spawning beds should be enforced as poaching, which it is. timothy

[Scott Ferguson]

Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, and New York all have closed seasons for bass. (So does most of Canada) Michigan allows catch and release fishing all year but only allows harvest from the very end of May through December.

[Mike Clifford]

Thanks, Scott.

Several years ago we stayed at a cottage in Michigan on Wolf Lake the week before bass season opened, and I took it to mean we couldn't fish for bass. We had a great time with humongous bluegills regardless.

[Scott Ferguson]

Thanks, Scott.

Several years ago we stayed at a cottage in Michigan on Wolf Lake the week before bass season opened, and I took it to mean we couldn't fish for bass. We had a great time with humongous bluegills regardless.

Several years ago, the regs were probably different. Today, C&R is legal all year.

[rich mc]

i believe clinton lake closed a creek arm one spring so the crappies could get an uninterupted spawn . rich

[ronk]

That makes sense.

The fact remains though that the IDNR encourages people to stomp all over the beds and fish for anything that swims by adding the trout to the creek. An invasive species. Brilliant.

There is no logical explanation as to why this continues to take place every Spring.

I don't have any experience with creeks like Rock for example. Does the state do multiple creek stockings which would be in contrast to the one time lake stockings?If not i doubt the trout stocking would have a significant impact on the smb spawn since it takes place around April 1st over a month to almost two depending on weather conditions before bass get ready to spawn.By than the trout are almost all gone and trout fishing over for the most part; so it's not so much the trout specific fishermen but the smallie fishermen that are on the creeks during the spawn.

[Norm M]

Ron,

 

It's June and folks are still catching trout in Rock Creek . I did several spot checks in slower/slack water and there dead trout there .

 

Mike,

 

The issue always has been sales of more licenses and trout stamps . The more licenses sold the bigger the slice of federal funds you get . It is also supposed to be about getting kids involved in fishing .

 

Biologically the spring one likely does have a greater impact on the bass than the fall one . However since most likely sales are higher in spring than fall , I don't see it going away .

[Mike Clifford]

You almost sound as if you support the stockings, Norm.

Do the rest of the math.

It's an invasive species.

The time of year is irrelevant.

Studies show clearly that whenever trout are introduced into a smallmouth stream, they compete for the same foodstuffs that smallies do, regardless if they were raised in a farm pond, hatchery.....whatever.

Look it up.

If the trade-off is getting kids fishing, then Bird Park Quarry has them too.

[rich mc]

dupage county has several ponds and lakes that get stocked trout. ponds are easier access for kids and parents compared to a creek and should be stocked there.

[Norm M]

Mike

 

The spring one not so much , the fall one I know that by then the smallmouth and rockbass have begun moving to different areas thru experience . However , I do acknowledge the economic realities involved . With no budget , no funds from general revenue . In a situation like that , do you really think the IDNR is going to close any revenue stream ?

 

With that in mind it is an unwinnable battle that might cost the ISA's relationship with the IDNR . Even in the best of times , I think that this is one battle that could hurt the relationship with the IDNR and lead to condemnation from the general angling public . There is already a sizable number of that general public that consider us an elitist group .

 

This is one battle that should involve considerable discussion before we engage .

[Steve S.]

How many of the trout survive a typical summer in IL?

 

Not sure if there is enough spring fed water coming into the Rock to provide suitable habitat that would sustain a population of a cold water species like the trout. I don't think they compete with smallmouth for food source or habitat for very long, but I tend to agree with Mike in that I frown upon the voluntary introduction of non-native species.

 

Protecting the genetics of a native species fishery should be a priority. There is something cool about knowing that the genetics of the smallmouth have been passed down for generations in a self-sustaining fishery like the K3 and we should aim to keep it that way.

[Norm M]

Further thoughts on the subject . The ISA has developed a nice relationship with Trout Unlimited and and has a long term relationship with D.R.I.F. T. How do you think their members would respond to getting their fishing opportunities restricted ? Likely the same as ours would if it happened to smallmouth . There is also the relationship with Orvis to consider .

 

I am not arguing the biology stand point , that's a given considering the research . As far as protecting the genetics of a native species i.e. the smallmouth , after many decades of fishing Rock Creek , I will tell you flat out that poaching and intense fishing pressure especially during the spawn have done far more damage then the trout will .

 

In a stretch that 40 some years ago hosted 100 plus smallmouth nests now hosts about 20 . The stock that was genetically prediposed to spawn in Rock Creek has been severly fished down , Of late , there seems to be a few more smallmouth showing up due to sand and silt destroying spawning and habitat the YOY need to survive and the increased competition for the remaining habitat elsewhere .

 

All I am attempting to point out is that there are many factors that would work against the ISA and the strictly biologically correct , protecting native fish arguments the ISA could rightfully present . In fact it could do harm to our standing with outside groups including the IDNR . If our membership overwhelming approves of trying then go for it after the current budget mess in Springfield is resolved when the IDNR could be theoretically more inclined to listen . After all , I am just one voice offering up my thoughts on the subject and do not claim infailbility on any subject .

 

Even if we win at best it would likely be a win/lose deal . If it's a lose/lose deal which it very likely could be , is it worth damaging the ISA's standing with others ? We would be better served by addressing the major issues affecting the entire watershed , loss of habitat and the bottom of the food chain due to silt and sand , getting the numbers of CPO's increased to better enforce the regulations in place and gaining more public access to allow the fishing pressure to get spread out .

 

Steve,

The trout from the spring stocking do die out and that process is beginning . The trout from the fall stocking do survive over the winter unless there is a severe freeze up in the creek . If that parking lot off 5000 West is open and the creek does not freeze , the great majority of those that fish there are fly rodders . There are likely a few ISA members who take advantage but I have seen many a TU sticker then and in talking to them most have traveled quite a distance to be able to catch trout from an Illinois stream during winter .

[ronk]

Steve

As far as I know Rock is a freestone river not a spring creek. In summer it gets very low and too warm for trout.

Norm

Even if a few trout survive the gauntlet into June they're not being targeted by trouters as when their #s warranted but by fishermen in general either out to catch whatever they can or more likely out after SMALLMOUTH

Finally,all you guys who cry "invasive species"

Here are some examples of invasive species;rainbows and or brown trout introduced into cutthroat or brook trout streams--lake trout into Yellowstone Lake -all carp species into N.A. and yes smallies into trout streams.

All invasive species must have one thing in common in order to join the club:they must be able to establish themselves in the native species environment.At worst trout stocking where fishermen or no they can't survive creates a here today/ gone tomorrow having little or no impact on the natives.It could even be that some big ole 18- 20" K3 smallies that enter Rock C in spring during high water got that big in part by dining on those naive stockers come April.The DNR's walleye stocking program is much more detrimental to K3 's bass.In any event with the sad state of affairs in our government for among other things the environment there are far better causes for us to embrace. National environmental organizations such as The Sierra Club, The Nature Conservancy etc need our support now more than ever.

[Norm M]

Ron

 

The fact is that walleye are a native strain of the Kankakee and the only walleye involved in the stocking process are from that native strain . As a lifetime fisherman , I would hate to lose any native species , if the river ever does get fixed .

 

While there are a couple spring seeps in Rock Creek , their influence does not last much beyond the entry point . You are correct the trout die off generally starts in June and is complete before summer's end . the water temperature in the main river during summer would prove fatal even if an odd trout or two made it that far . For example last year when the average sized trout stocked seemed to be about 8 inches , ideal size for a larger predator including raptors .

 

Yes , there are definitely those that harvest trout until they are gone . Unfortunately some of that group harvest everything , hence the need for more enforcement officers . As much as I enjoy turning in poachers , I must admit that in summer my attention goes elsewhere as the mosquitoes biting overwhelms the fish bite even with bug spray in that stretch .

[Rob G]

The one problem with closed seasons on smallmouth in many streams down this way is that the spawn's timing is not nearly as predictable as it might be in a pond or lake. It can vary wildly down here because of the amount of rain, water levels, flow and silt which affect water temps. I don't target smallies on beds but truth be told, I often don't know if they were on a bed or not when they hit my fly 15 yards away. The fact is that I would love to see a catch and release of all smallmouth, all year long but I know I'm dreaming.

 

As to Mike's comments, I can understand the frustration. Trout can not live in our IL streams very long at all and they are stocked in much too large a size for even the largest brutus to dine on. Geesh, put them in a pond or deep lake.

[Mike Clifford]

I only stated that it's a really irresponsible thing to stock them in the creek. Nobody said they were going to make any demands of anybody to stop them from doing it.

[ronk]

Norm

For the reasons i stated above I think concerns about the trout stocking are misplaced. I agree about the poaching problem.A game warden stationed at or at least often frequenting the Wilmington dam would eliminate much of the poaching that goes on there.

[Norm M]

Ron

 

Not to mention the Kankakee dam , alas too many places and no where near enough CPO's .

 

Mike,

 

I wasn't sure where you were going and wanted to my thoughts know before I started the radiation/chemo stage of my treatment . No telling how the combo will effect me, but don't figure it well good .