Would you call this a fly?

[Tom L]

Obviously Umpqau think so.....

 

https://umpqua.com/products/flies/bass-flies-subsurface/schmidterbait

[eugene f collins]

Tom

 

I have to say, in my opinion that is a Beetlespin! :-)

[John Gillio]

I'm with Eugene on that one.

[Rob G]

I've got mixed feelings but this darn thing would definitely catch smallies all day long, but then again I doubt I would enjoy casting this thing all day long.

 

[Mike G]

Define fly. That's important because of history. I have read reports that around 1870 certain members of the Orvis family refused to call the Royal Coachman a fly because it did not look like an insect. Around 1900 long rod fishermen distinguished wet flies, dry flies, streamers, and Bass bugs. Only the first two got to be called flies. Then came fly rod lures like the Fly Oreno, Fly Runt, Fly Tin Liz, Flicker Spinners, F2-7 Flatfish, etc. creating a fifth category.

 

So this is a streamer. If you consider a streamer to be a fly, it's a fly. There are long traditions of weighting and adding spinners to streamers. This one happens to have both. Now if it were made with a rubber skirt instead of the fur and feathers, it would be a Fly Rod Thumper.

 

In use some might tip it with a pork strip. Then what would it be?

 

What's in a name?

[Guest rich mc]

I would say no because its about 50% hardware. the fish skull also makes it more jig like . with a fly rod one would mostly reel it in slow as fast retrieve would be difficult. rich mc

[Ryan Kral]

Thats no fly! Im not a traditionalist tier by any means, but if they call that a fly, then they may as well just start pulling Rapala's off the shelves, charge twice the price and call it a fly. Now, I could care less if someone chose to use that "fly", whatever works I guess, but you wont catch me flinging that thing around on the fly rod. Ryan

[Mike G]

Now that we have that settled, how about these Gummy things?

https://umpqua.com/products/flies/all-purpose-saltwater-flies/gummy-minnow

 

At $6.79 a copy

[John Gillio]

Fluke.

[Rob G]

What about marabou "jigs", are these flies in disguise?

 

[Rob G]

Fluke.

 

No John, it's no fluke, they really do catch fish

 

I actually "tied" up some of those gummy minnows after they first came out but they were a pain to cast on lighter rods because of the way they would flutter around in the air and then also on retrieval, they would put in even more twist in my tippet/leader and I wasn't willing to use a swivel as to really ugly things up.

[asherman]

I would call it a lure. It looks like a beetle spin and it would be more to fun to fish that particular beetle spin on a light spinning rod than with a fly rod. Casting that thing on a fly rod would put some serious line twist in your leader. It could also do some damage to your fly rod tip. Using a double haul with that lure on a fly rod ought to generate enough line speed to make some very interesting noises.

 

I saw a TV show a few years ago where Larry Dahlberg was fishing a lake in Canada for ice out pike. There were three people fishing in a small aluminum boat. All three anglers were using big bunny leech flies tied on 3/0 hooks and they were using light spinning rods to catch bunches of large pike. It was a windy day, too. You certainly couldn't have three people fishing with fly rods using those big, heavy bunny leeches in a small boat in the wind. It looked like fun to me despite that fact they they were using spinning rods to fish flies.

 

 

 

 

[Tom L]

Where do you draw the line? I asked myself. Mike G's got a point. Fly fishing has come along way from the days of "the dry fly. fishing upstream for trout only". Today, we fly fish for all kind of species with all kind of flies. It seems there are no limits, but we have to draw the line some where. And for me, adding a spinner or a propeller on a fly has crossed the line. I'd not look down on some one using them, but I'd not use them myself.

[Guest rich mc]

as far as the marabou jigs in the photo if lead eyes or bead chain eyes were tied on its a fly premelted jigheads are for spinning gear. that's where I draw the line .

[John Gillio]

I feel the same as rich about the jigs. As far as throwing these things on a fly rod, to each his own. I've thrown all kinds of things with mine, including tiny jigs, spinners and even tiny plugs.

[Scott Ferguson]

Does what you call it make any difference? Fishermen have adapted hundreds of different combinations of materials, lines and rods all with one goal in mind, catching fish. Call it anything you want, fish it on a fly rod, a spinning rod, or a willow branch. Use it or don't, it's one more option for catching smallies.

[Mike G]

Thanks Scott. Since you are not a fly fisherman you are not caught up in all the nuances (AKA prejudices) of the method. Before I was 10 I witnessed my father using his fly rod in all kinds of unorthodox ways. For example casting a spinner and pork rind for crappies, lobbing wacky hooked night crawlers for Largemouths, drifting a minnow under a cork for Smallmouths... So we probably agree that a fly rod is just a tool. But for others it is something else.

[Ryan Kral]

I do agree with both Scott and mike, if it catches fish, that's the point. I guess I have a hard time with it from a tiers POV, not a fishermans. I just like using minimal flash, or attractants in my flies. I obviously use flash in my flies such as flashabou or similar materials, but more so to highlight lateral lines or something like that in a baitfish pattern, or to give the otherwise dull body of natural materials some reflection like the natural, but minimal, reflection of fish scales. I don't like tying or using anything outside of the body of the fly just to add more flash. That's just my taste, but we are all in this group because we enjoy catching fish, whatever works for you! Ryan

[John Gillio]

I use all kinds of materials to tie flies or lures or whatever you want to call them. I suppose it would be unclear as to weather I am a fly tier or a lure maker. I would definitely say I am a lure maker when forming a crankbait as there is no tying involved, but what about poppers, seam flies, or the tinsel flies I tie. I personally consider any fly a type of fish lure but not all fish lures are flies. The term fly tier could mean different things to different people.

[Tom L]

I use all kinds of materials to tie flies or lures or whatever you want to call them. I suppose it would be unclear as to weather I am a fly tier or a lure maker. I would definitely say I am a lure maker when forming a crankbait as there is no tying involved, but what about poppers, seam flies, or the tinsel flies I tie. I personally consider any fly a type of fish lure but not all fish lures are flies. The term fly tier could mean different things to different people.

Well said John. It depends on where you draw the line; and the line is diff for each individual.

[Guest rich mc]

I wonder what the cpo would say to an angler using the schmidterbait in a flyfishing only area? rich mc

[mikea]

I'm no purist, adding blades are fine. Personally I think by adding the whole wire arm your casting a piece gear, or as ugene stated a freak'n beetle spin. Take the blade away and you've got a regular streamer, it is by no means original.

[Tom L]

We had this discussion a while back. Here is an interesting read in the most recent issue of Fly Fishing the Salt:

 

http://www.flyfishinsalt.com/species/conservation/when-fly-not-fly?cmpid=enews112613&spPodID=030&spMailingID=18213761&spUserID=NTE3OTEyMjA2OTAS1&spJobID=239248679&spReportId=MjM5MjQ4Njc5S0