Mike G

Farmers have the same problems. The cows do not want to be bothered so early in the morning.

Lefty Kreh and Bob Clouser do. Let me know if you want to look at their formulas.

I am for bringing back this old idea. How old? At least 40-50 years. Michigan and Ontario had daily fees for entering their parks and an annual sticker that covered all parks. I am not sure what they do now. I also remember that when we moved to Lombard about 20 years ago there was a gate at Blackwell where the ranger collected entry fees. Now speaking of quality of parks, it seemed to work in Michigan and Ontario and DuPage county if you have noticed the wear and tear on Blackwell lately. BTW California has a similar system for its parks using a silent ranger - lock box - approach. It looks like they are calling for a $15 annual pass which is mild. MI and ON charged more even back then. I hate to say this, but I think the fees will deter the casual traffic and lead to use of the parks by more respectful outdoor users. Nothing wrong with that. Like many others, I will miss the free lunch. Gotta bit the bullet on that one.

I still have some adrenalin left from last weekend. 1b is getting some attention. 2 is also on the way. But 1a is out there. Think of it as less than 10 months (lessthan a year) till the next OD show. It is not too early to to begin planning.

Sounds like a good plan.

OK. It is better than I guestimated. From what you say we save a whole two dollars per issue for each member that opts to go paperless. 6x500x$2=$6000 per year if the whole membership opts in. Of course the survey will tell us more closely how many people will opt in. Remember I am tentatively volunteering to backup Steve. I am tentative because I don't know what training, skills, computer power, software, and hours are required to do the job.

First, I have a warm fuzzy feeling since I just requested that Bass Pro remove me from their mailings. I shop on line and throw the books away almost as soon as I get them. I will be saving more trees in a month than I would save all year by going paperless with the ISA bulltein. I did it via their CS Chat Line. Scott's answer is a good one and gives us a sense of costs. It costs about $2 per issue for each member. My compliments to ISA for the low cost. I would have expected it to be more. Volunteer authoring and editing are a few of the things that produce this good value for the dollar product, I suspect. Then a little voice said caveat. Having been an Industrial Engineer for 30 years I automatically look at costs in terms of fixed and variable. (y=a+bx) Because of the low volume and high $ efficiency of the bulltein operation, it is hard to generate a lot of savings out of the process. To make his mark in industry, an I.E. needs to work on high volume, inefficient, fat, sloppy operations. Just guestimating say $1 of the 2 is fixed cost (a) that we would have no matter how we distributed the bulletin-like, writing, editing, layout, and printing setup before a single bulletin is printed. The variable cost (bx) varies with the number of units (x). It is based on the unit costs for things like printing, labeling, and postage for each bulletin. I guestimate that as the other dollar in the bulletin. With paperless issues we save that last dollar though we have some cost for distributing electronically. Lets guess 25 cents. That nets us 75 cents per issue for each member that signs up for paperless. If 100 members sign up for paperless, ISA saves $450 per year. But we are stuck with a two headed monster for a distribution system. A business would not do this because its extra labor cost for the dual system would cancel the savings. With free volunteer labor for maintaining the lists ISA has some gain though we can ask if that is the best use of volunteer time. All of this is a rough calculation because of the guestimates though you can see where this is trending. There is not a big savings margin to work with if anything goes worng. As Eric points out, ISA officers have to rule on whether it is worth digging further into this.

I want the PDF sent to members. That way only members get to look at the latest edition. As Mike noted it is possible for outsiders to get at the archives.

Down the road I would consider volunteering to maintain the lists after I know more about what is involved. But I am getting ahead of myself. First I want to know what the incentive is for going paperless. Will the member get a discount? How much? Or will a contribution equivalent to the discount be made to the ISA Conservation Fund? Or does the member just get a warm fuzzy environmental feeling? These are positive incentives (carrots). If we are serious about being environmentally correct, however, there is a more radical approach. Make paperless the norm and add a surcharge for a hardcopy membership. The money again would go to the conservation fund. The charge could be waived for hardships and other reasons. This is a negative incentive (a stick). Whether we use carrots or sticks, we need to put some teeth into making the change because, as has been noted, most members probably lean toward the status quo hardcopy. And we have to sell the advantages of going paperless. So, Scott, let me know what is involved in maintaining the lists. It is almost as easy to train two as it is to train one. Steve and I can backup each other and you would have a spare in case something happens.

I am glad to see thoughts coming: Here are some more thoughts that occurred to me. 1a. Though the price of flash drives is coming down, the cost is still too high especially since we have a more reasonable alternative right under our noses. A simple no bells CD-R costs about 15 cents. And that price is coming down. It would hold about 30 years of archived bulletins. But since there are only 10 years in the archive there would be plenty room for other stuff. This would replace the bulky copies of the bulletin in the signup packet and perhaps the box of lures or flies. 1b. jim b 's idea of a lap top at the show sounds great. A continuously playing DVD or Power Point presentation would capture a lot of interest. I have seen this before. Of course there is the question of who's laptop and how to guard it. 2. Hardcopies are a hard problem though a lot of people are saying that by 2025 newspapers, magazines and books as we know them will be a thing of the past like 35 mm Kodachrome film. Right now I get my news from the web-not a newspaper. And I throw out most catalogs as soon as I get them preferring to shop on the websites. We need an incentive to make the conversion. If it cost you $5-10 more for a hardcopy membership, would you switch to an E subscription? Or would knowing that foregoing the hardcopy put $5 more into the ISA Conservation fund help you make the change? 3. In terms of volunteer activity the ISA facebook page is very promising. Posting an activity there can reach way beyond an announcement in the bulletin on on this site since the bulletin and the site have much more limited readership. This does not solve it all since there are still the XT AOL-dial-up users to consider.

This is just buying philosophy. If I was buying a array of rods, 4, 5, and 6 would not be my choice because the 5 can do as a heavy 4 or a light 6. 3, 5, and 7 makes sense because they are clearly distinct in performance. On your question, your 5 is close enough going in. It might even be dead on.

There are three points hidden in the Rockford show thread that I want to run up the flag for further discussion. 1. Eric had the idea that a USB flass drive loaded with 5 years of bulletin pdfs and other info would make a great new member handout. Easier to haul around than boxes of lures and flies, but better? I think it is a great product and would buy one. 2. Pushing the pdf idea into the future. What about distributing the bulletin electronically instead of hardcopy? Save printing costs and postage. Eliminate the griping when the mail is slow. BTW I have a growing pile of old bulletins in my basement that I will hand out the next time I work a show. I can view the achived copies any time. Downside, some guys need a hardcopy for whatever reason. Now we have to maintain 2 distribution lists. Charge extra for hardcopy? 3. Jim J pointed out an awkward fact of ISA life. 5% of the members are doing 95% of the work. Some members did more work Saturday at the Blowout than other members do in a year. Gotta work on that inequality. Just some thoughts.

Stupid answer: a caterpillar with 100 legs.

Don't this whole thing make the case for barbless hooks?

Good luck. The concept is simple and should work. On the other hand you are leaving out bait casters and especially left handed bait casters What about centerpinners?

XT or AT?

Eugene, Thanks for sticking with it. Good pictures. you and others fulfilled my dream of seeing the fly winners in Aces. Though I did not have the time to tie any entries this year, I could at least participate in spirit.

Great idea! I want to buy one right now. How much? It could really work, though it cuts out those who do not have use of a computer. It is not a unique kind of problem. A guy I knew back when worked for AOL for a while. Back then they were furiously debating whether to continue to support the XT and AT versions of their system. I am sure we can figure something out.

It would have made a great video, Terry. Next time...but we hope there is not a next time. I never had the pleasure of sinking a hook in me somewhere though it is just a matter of time before I come home with a fly in my ear. By the way you were lucky you were home. Here's three I have heard of. Guy catches a Muskie on a multi-hook plug. He's holding the fish to remove the hook when the Muskie thrashes and drives the free treble into his hand. Now he is hooked to a thrashing Muskie. Lucky his buddy was able to come to the rescue. Second, guy gets a hook into his hand and decides to use the mono loop trick. It works, but the pain is so great that the guy passes out falling out of the boat and tipping the boat over in the process. They had to go back to the spot the next day, but they never did recovered all the tackle that sunk there. Third, gal was not watching and sits down on a plug that was laying on the boat seat. One barb of the treble imbeds in her seat and the other imbeds in the fabric of the boat seat. I do not know how this one came out. So, if you are going to drive a hook past the barb into your body, it is best to do it at home.

Take a deep breath, Jim. I put that in my post for a reason. Shirts were a throwaway intro to the topic of handouts for future outdoor shows. Handouts are what I think is the secret of our success at the show on Saturday. Last year ISA provided shirts for the volunteers who worked the booth. They were not there this year. So Bill and I soldiered on. I want to think that, in spite or the tees, our professional performance carried the day. Terry said,"The show in the Rockford area is attended by mostly bucket fishermen looking for as much free stuff as they can get their hands on. The area has been hit hard by the bad economy and most attendees complain more about the cost just to get into the show than anything. It's more of a "something to do" day for fishermen in the Rockford area." That, I think gives a false impression of the Rockford show. The bucket brigade is present in force at every show in the state. And the economy is almost equally bad whereever you go in the state. Hey, till recently I lived in DuPage County. My move to Winnebago County was easy because the people are the same. Terry did a good job of setting the record right on Rock River Fly Fishers. They have a lot going for them. Beating on them because of their size is unwarranted. Back to basics. We had a good show. We recruited more members. I kidded about the shirts What we need to get to is what we want to give out or sell at future shows.

That is a thought. It could feature a collection of the best articles from past issues. Figuring that it costs something to produce an issue like that, maybe it could be something we would sell at the shows. I would buy one.

Make it 4, Bill! I just noticed that I am due for renewal and will be sending in my renewal with the rest of the applications. I was surprised that we got so many signups in the first two hours. Two things were different this year. First, we did not have the official ISA shirts to wear. Could it be that our tee shirts made it easier for the average guy to relate? Do guys shy away from the ISA uniform because it reminds them of a DNR oficer? Second, we were handing out old issues of the newsletter, and that really caught some eyes. Most attendees are out for free stuff, and resort owners, businesses, and guides use the show as a platform to distribute flyers and brochures. Since we did have to ration our supplies, we could not be as generous as the other exhibitors. A single sheet handout with an informational article like Eric's river fishing guide might be affordable and effective at getting attention at future shows. BTW it was great to see the Rock River Fly Casters there. IMHO they had the best promo at the show--Show Special Annual Membership $10 (regularly $12) included free $10 in flies from the table. That's a $22 value for $10!

About Mike Clifford's pictures. Thank you Lord for the pictures of the flies. It has restored my faith. There really is a contest. Thank you Mike for your spiritually inspiring post IMHO. Now do those numbers represent the final rankings? Who won?

Anyone try these yet. There was an article in BASS a while back. They look like a chatterbait which I know is productive.

Gocha, Jude. I think we had only one signup on Saturday last year. Then there was another at the fly tying event.