Mike G

Rich, Calico Bass were not mentiond in the original contest. But bass is bass, as they say. You would have won with this one after May 1 if this critter was over 14 inches. Stay on the hunt, bubba. Yours in the 400 Spoonplug,

excellent!

Rob, that 50# butt material is probably easier to come by in saltwater country no doubt. The big fish off shore guides probably use it to floss their teeth. In the text that the link above leads to, Lefty lays heavy emphasis on using mono of the same make and model for each section of the leader. For example, the leader should be made not only of Berkley Trilene which has many variations. It should be made entirely of Trilene XL or entirely of Trilene XT. This assures that the relative flex between sections of the leader is consistant. Lefty is a stickler on these kinds of details. But, since he has only been a pro fly fisherman, writer, and guide for 60-64 years, what does he know? Till he was 21 (1947) he had not even caught a Smallmouth on a fly. Maybe we should excuse the delay since he was serving in Europe after the Normandy Invasion and during the occupation till he returned home and caught that first Smallmouth. Mo matter what # test the sections are made of, the "make- model" theory is worth attention IMHO.

I have found 30# Omnisomething at Wally's. Even that is heavy. I can't imagine what 50# is like. Try starting with the 40# butt first. Going with what I have I will go with a 4-2-1 (30#-20#-12#) with 8 or 10# tippet and report back.

That is a good answer. The high interest in fly fishing justifies the forums. And you defined the requirements for having a separate forum that way. Grahamm's Swim Jigs and Float 'n Fly jigs are about the only lure making I see being posted. I can fix some of that by showing off some Chatterbaits, Spinnerbaits, and jigs that I make. Rich has a few chenille creations that fish best on underspin gear. Though there's always Eric, I do not see many others using the baitcasting gear regularly. When I posed the original question, I suspected there was not support for the Baitcasters forum based on response to this thread up to this point. Not a lot are doing it. Luremaking seems the same. No groundswells happened. If anyone is interested in taking up baitcasting, I hope they have seen some reasons to look further here.

The same comment would apply about having two separate fly fishing forums, wouldn't it? The equivalent forum for "Bassbugger Submissions" would be a lure making forum, spinners, jigs, spoons, molded soft plastics, spinnerbaits, plugs. There is some overlap with spinning there. The equivalent forum for Bassbuggers would cover casting tips and other casting specific questions. Most will say there is some difference in the rhythm and timing of casting such that you cannot group it with spinning. Baitcasters are a distinct minority, I think, fewer than the Bassbuggers or spin guys. Fly fisning is not spinning is not baitcasting. Once you set up specialized forums for one technique, logic supports setting up other forums for other techniques. Haw about Center Pinning?

Scott, try it and tell us how it goes. I always thought of baitcasting as a big bait technique. Santa gave me a Curado 200E7 with a 6' Medium rod. It is easy to cast 1/4 oz lures on 12# line with the outfit. The rod is rated 1/4 to 5/8. With 8 or 10 pound line I might even handle smaller baits It seems baitcasting is not just for big plugs.

I will stick to pointing out advantages of bait casting no matter which cranking configuration one chooses. RH or LH is, IMHO, a personal preference. That assumes one wants to use a baitcaster at all. So far what has been said seems to come down to power in a small package. Baitcasters are compact even though they handle the heavier lines and lures that go with much bulkier spinning reels. As we noted, it is hard to palm a spinning reel due to its configuration. Baitcasters seem more easily balanced in the hand. Let's talk about cast distance records--casting, spinning, single handed fly, and 18' spey rod. I googled these from several sources. If you do not believe me, do your own searches and tell us what you found. These are US records for tournament distance casting (note that usually specialized "distance" tackle was used}: Tackle/record distance Casting/313.46 yards Spinning/284 yards Single handed fly casting/243 feet Spey casting (18 ft rod)/222 feet Casting seems to have a 10% edge when it comes to distance. It is said tha surf casters have long known this advantage. Think of a boxing match where one guy's arms are longer. The oponent has to make up the difference with strength and skill. The reason some times given for the longer distance for casting is physics. In spinning the momentum of the plug has to pull the line off the fixed spool throughout he entire cast. In casting there is this same pull from the momentum of the plug, and there is also a push from the rotating spool. The spool has forward momentum that throws the line forward. This can be good or bad. We get better distance if we control the momentum properly with thumb and the reel's braking system. We get a backlash if we do not. That is all I have to say about the advantages of bait casting. I hope reaaders have more to say. I thought the interest level might justify a Basscaster forum to compliment the Bassbugger forums--like a place of our own. Does it?

Travis, ??? Let me get this, do you cast with the right hand and crank with the left now? Whereas before you casted with the right hand and and cranked with the right hand? Maybe it is academic since not everyone fits the tackle manufacturers assumption of normal.

I owe you some info on leader formulas. First there is the classic 4-2-1 which we often see. The numbers express proportions not necesarily length. Example 4' 30#-2' 20#-1' 12# gives you a 7' leader that you can add 2' of tippet to to get a 9' total. The long heavy butt section goes along with what Kreh and Clouser recommend for bass. You can read them in their own words via the links below. Lefty's formulas Clouser,s FormulasI

Flouro could be a problem with poppers since it is slightly denser than water and may sink on you. I want to try hand furling too. It was a great video.

Believe me, ronk. I have no reason to lie. Or see for yourself in Lefty Kreh's Ultimate Guide to Fly Fishing, (first paperback, 2006) p. 115-116, he says, "While a few anglers who have for many years used their off hand to crank a fly reel may do well, the average person will perform a great deal more efficiently if he does this with the stronger hand. That means that a right hander will do best to reel with the right hand." That's what the man sez. The relevance of this to baitcasting is that it points to a possible advantage in reeling with the stronger or dominant hand. Now I do not even follow Lefty all the way on this one. My rule which applies to me only is as follows: If the reel hangs below the rod like a fly reel, spinning reel, or underspin reel, I crank with my left hand. If the reel sits on top of the rod like a baitcaster or spincaster, I crank with my dominant or right hand. If someone wants to get into baitcasting, the ideal thing would be to borrow reels to see which hand seems best to crank with. I have a lefty friend who let me try his baitcaster. I was not comfortable with the the left hand cranking even though I do it all the time with spinning and fly rods. Different strokes for different folks!

Baitcastings really comes forward with fast retrieves for buzzbaits, crank baits, and spinner baits. Spinning gets awkward in these cases with the reel hanging off center and the bail making wide loops around the spool. Can you palm a spinning reel? With casting you have a compact reel close to the center axis of the rod. It seeems a lot less tiring than burning the same baits with a spinning outfit. Left or right hand? Don't go there. I am a righty and am very comfortable with the right handed baitcasting reel. The switch comes naturally. After the cast transfer reel to palm of left hand. Since I go on and off with carpal tunnel issues in the right wrist, it also also distributes the stress more evenly between hands. That said, long ago I swithed my fly reels to reeling left handed like spinning. Now I find a guy named Lefty recommending that with a fly rod you should reel with your dominant hand because you may not be able to keep up with a big fish reeling with your off hand. There's another reason for me to reel with the right hand. This is a matter of personal feel for lack of a better word.

Lots of good advice for the beginner here assuming someone wants to begin. I love to hear your favorite gear. But we should not get ahead of ourselves with tips and fine points. Since spinning is easier, why would anyone even consider a baitcaster?

X Lent. Steve! I retired in 2008. In my experience, you will be busier than when you worked. Keep that a secret from the former boss. Two thumbs up! Or more if you can count toes!

Apology accepted Ron.

Baitcasting is one of many ways of fishing for smallmouths and largemouths. I am for it because it is a great compliment to use of lighter tackle like spinning and fly gear. It falls between spinning and flycasting in difficulty, but it is worth spending the time to learn how to cast. Improvements in technology are making the perenial problem of backlashes less of a problem. Though there is a lot more I could say, you might be more interested in what Buck sed. In Spoonplugging Buck Perry said that a medium baitcaster with 15# line is the perfect outfit for casting applications. He said that because it gave him the best in two kinds of control. First was control of the presentation of the lure. Second was the control of a fish once he hooked it. Buck was all about control even when it came to rods and reels. I will stop here and drink some Bud. (Figuratively that is. It is not even 8:00 AM yet.)

Good idea. I am starting a thread about baitcasting.

Your errors are hi-lited in bold below below. 1. A blanket statement, as the use of "blanket" suggests, is a statement that attempts to cover all cases. It is a universal statement. It can frequently be a statement of prejudice or stereotype. To use my own nationality for an example, "All Germans are Nazis." You have confused blanket statement with unfounded statement. That is a statement presented with no evidence. 2. You have totally confused me with someone else putting words in my mouth to boot. Big flies on a 6 wt: I do not see me or anyone else at all saying that in this thread. Yet to learn the double haul Wrong again. Someone else said something like that. As far as you are concerned, you do not know if I can dubl (sic) haul or not. Maybe you assumed something. Which are you than I never claimed either status. The question is a false dilemma giving me only two choices. So the answer is neither. Right now I will tell you that I used to be able to hit a 4 iron 200 yards. I hope you saw the point of the golf analogy. "Different strokes for different folks!" Eric the beer idea sounds good. I am a relative beginner with a baitcaster. I have only been using one for the last 10 of the 60 years that I have been fishing. Maybe you can give me some tips. No hugs required.

No ron, there are no blanket statements that universally cover all cases as you sometimes imply. As a former golfer, I know that many duff along happy to get in the 90s hoping to get better. Though they strive to get better, as everyone should, they play the game at their level and enjoy it without shame. If they need a 4 wood where a pro would hit a 4 iron, so be it. Even though they are not going to drive the ball 275 off the tee, they step up. They do not wait till they have scratch level skills before they leave the practice range. That is how fly fishing should be also. 4 iron or 4 wood for 200 yards is similar to 6 wt or 8 wt for a 5 inch streamer. Some need one; some need he other. No shame, we go fishing.

The daily fee should drive people to get the annual pass-no less than $5 with the annual around $15 to $20. Non-residents about 50% more. If you have been to a Burger King lately, you know that most meal deals are $5 or more. Bottle of pop at a quick mart = $1 or more. What does a movie cost? Daytime round of golf $35 or more unless you go to Put-put. You can't get gum for a penny any more. Oops, I forgot one. Gallon of unleaded = $4. We should keep in mind that park fees are usually per vehicle. At $10 per car, assuming there are 4 passengers, that's $2.50 each-still less than lunch from the value menu at Ronald's. the moral is fish with a friend if you go to a state park.

"Sockit tu non-residentes!" ,is the motto of many state DNRs. I hope Illinois picks up on this in its fee schedule.

Its the unions' fault,ya know!

We know that there are 'sperts out there that can probably cast these flies without even using a rod. Their feet do not touch the ground when they walk, and they speak only to God. However, the average guy has an easier time with a more powerful rod. The Sage Smallmouth takes a 10 weight line. The Largemouth is an 11. These are freshwater rods. Smallmouths do not have trouble chasing a big lure. How big is a 5" hula grub. How long is a 7" Power Worm. Guys catch bonus bass on 12" Musky Lures. So why should flies be different.

Meet you on the first tee after you pay $45 for eighteen holes.