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Clouser Rod


Mark K
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I noticed the Bob Clouser rod is 8'9" and moderate action.

 

I thought moderate actions were for more delicate prsentations and it seems to me that a longer rod might be better when wading in deeper water or fishing out of a canoe or kayak. Is that not correct?

 

Panel of experts: what gives?

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Moderate action thows larger loops- old bass rods were from 7-9" to 9' based on taper but were 8 or 9 wt. for big hair bugs & poppers, which is what that rod is designed for. I have one which you could try sometime, I think you will like it.

 

John said that about as well as you can because "moderate" actions can vary from Brand to Brand. My moderate 8'6" 9 wt. Shakespeare Honey Green would seem slow next to a Moderate Graphite of similar line weight and length.

 

Length is not subjective. With Bamboo and glass rods 8'6" was a standard all round length for general fly fishing. Adding length to that pushed the weight limits. Graphite solved the weight issue. Now 9' might be considered a standard length. And you could go to 9.5 or 10 for low in the water casting all other things being equal.

 

Now there are experts here who will add to the details of picking the right length and weight.

 

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Large weighted compact flys don't require a open loop to turn over completely. Depends on what you like, the clouser rod will throw anything well but does better controlling big lite wind resistant bass bugs than faster rods. I prefer faster action to handle clouser minnows or hairy fodders especially if distance is a necessity & the faster rod will cast better into a stiff wind.

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Length is not subjective. With Bamboo and glass rods 8'6" was a standard all round length for general fly fishing.

 

really? I thought bamboo was more like 7'-7'6"(salmon rods not withstanding), I would think a bamboo pushing the 9' mark would be godawful heavy. I guess I'm a product of the modern age because my 7'6" bamboo feels like a boat anchor, I couldn't imagine one over 8'6".

 

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I find with weighted flies like a clouser or my hairy fodder that they do cast easier on a moderate rod than a fast rod but you will not get the same distance as the faster rod, especially in a wind. Weighted flies tend to bounce on the end of a powerful forward or backcast causing all kinds of shock waves thru your fly line. The softer moderate rod absorbs these by giving a little more so you do not have to adjust your casting stroke for the bounce. But the softer rod takes away the backbone for really long casts (if you need them). With the faster rod you have to learn to drift back with the rod on the backcast to soften the pull of the heavy fly as it swings around, then learn to feather your forward cast (like thumbing a baitcaster) to take the bounce out of the front end too. It helps to have a little more line stripped out than you can cast so there is no tension on the line as you shoot your cast out. It does not come taunt to the end of the line and snaps halfway back to you. Faster rods main advantage is with sinking lines which have a much thinner diameter and little air resistance. They do not "hang" in the air like a floater and do not give you as much time for the rod to load and unload before the fly line starts to drop to the ground. The faster rod recovers quicker keeping up with the gravity on your line. This is even more true with longer casts. By time a softer rod flexes all the way back on a heavy load (long line) the fly line is already on its way down causing all kinds of casting problems. A fast rod only the tip has to flex and it does quickly. The even weight across the lenght of the fly line does not bounce like the uneven weight of a heavy fly at the end of your tippet. If you are using integrated or full shooting heads of 300 grs or more and are getting a bounce from the very heavy line, step up one or more rod sizes. If the line on an 8 wt bounces, put it on a 9 or a 10, it will improve your distance greatly. I'm no casting instructor but I've noticed these things after years of casting both heavy flies and/or sinking lines.

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There was an article in one the the fly fishing magazines within the last year about casting large wind-resistent flies. If I remember correctly, it suggested that a larger loop (lower line speed) was more beneficial to the cast. It really kind of threw me for loop (excuse the pun) because I tought that the extra bulk of the fly needed to be thrown with more "power"; therefore, more line speed and tighter loops. I do admit that I still try and get a higher line speed when casting bigger deer hair flies.

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There was an article in one the the fly fishing magazines within the last year about casting large wind-resistent flies. If I remember correctly, it suggested that a larger loop (lower line speed) was more beneficial to the cast. It really kind of threw me for loop (excuse the pun) because I tought that the extra bulk of the fly needed to be thrown with more "power"; therefore, more line speed and tighter loops. I do admit that I still try and get a higher line speed when casting bigger deer hair flies.

 

It doesn't work that way Michael.

 

When I fish for Steelhead on smaller river/streams I do alot of roll casting out to about 40'. Even with the surface tension on the fly line and the static pressure of the water around even the heavier and bushier the fly, it pops out and rolls just fine with minimal effort. The same applies to normal casting. The faster the rod and a quicker cast will just simply deliver the fly "faster" to the target. Also remember that you have the option to over line the rod to make casting easier if you are going with the larger flies or when fishing in very windy conditions like Argentina is known for.

 

If you are a good to great caster, you should be able to throw at least 70' of line even with the lighter rods (3/4 wt.).

 

Of course, you should choose the optimal setup for rod length, weight, etc... for your needs but working on your casting is far more important than anything thing else.

 

 

 

 

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Mark, I'm just relaying what the magazine article's author had written. And if he's wrong and you're right, maybe you should be an author.

 

Michael:

 

I didn't mean anything negative toward you or anyone else for that matter. I was just giving my opinion.

 

These are one of these topics that are discussed and never really have an answer.

 

I'm sorry if you took my response the wrong way. I didn't intend it to sound that way.

 

Being an Orvis and FFF Certified Casting Instructor, my comments on "casting ability" came forth.

 

My Best Regards,

 

Mark

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Yep.

That answers it. Find the one you like. Write your name on it.

 

One thing I should have mentioned in my previous report.

 

If you throw alot of heavy/bushy flies, you should consider purchasing the Rio Clouser Line.

 

It makes the process of casting even in windy conditions virtually effortless...

 

Mark

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[quote name='Mark P' date='Oct 22 2007, 11:59 AM' post='15124 Also remember that you have the option to over line the rod to make casting easier if you are going with the larger flies or when fishing in very windy conditions like Argentina is known for.

 

If you are a good to great caster, you should be able to throw at least 70' of line even with the lighter rods (3/4 wt.).

 

Of course, you should choose the optimal setup for rod length, weight, etc... for your needs but working on your casting is far more important than anything thing else.

Mark P,

I completely agree with you re.casting ability being by far the most important.A good caster will cast better with a poor rod than a mediocre caster will with a good rod.i.e."it's not the arrow,it's the indian".It's disappointing how many long time flyfishers are little better casters now than they were in the beginning.In order to cast heavy and/or wind resistant flies well one should concentrate more on learning to dubl haul than what style of rod to use.I'm sorry if this offends anyone but it's the truth of the matter.I also concur with overlining the rod being beneficial casting large flies.The development of lengthening the belly in recently developed flylines seems to me to be a tacit recognition of this.It may be that such lines need not be overlined.While I have not as yet tried these lines I'm sure they're very good. Another line worth considering that I do use is the Triangle Taper designed many years ago by Lee Wulff.It's an excellent rollcasting and mending line and with a thin running line it casts for distance excellently as well

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[quote name='Mark P' date='Oct 22 2007, 11:59 AM' post='15124 Also remember that you have the option to over line the rod to make casting easier if you are going with the larger flies or when fishing in very windy conditions like Argentina is known for.

 

If you are a good to great caster, you should be able to throw at least 70' of line even with the lighter rods (3/4 wt.).

 

Of course, you should choose the optimal setup for rod length, weight, etc... for your needs but working on your casting is far more important than anything thing else.

 

Mark P,

I completely agree with you re.casting ability being by far the most important.A good caster will cast better with a poor rod than a mediocre caster will with a good rod.i.e."it's not the arrow,it's the indian".It's disappointing how many long time flyfishers are little better casters now than they were in the beginning.In order to cast heavy and/or wind resistant flies well one should concentrate more on learning to dubl haul than what style of rod to use.I'm sorry if this offends anyone but it's the truth of the matter.I also concur with overlining the rod being beneficial casting large flies.The development of lengthening the belly in recently developed flylines seems to me to be a tacit recognition of this.It may be that such lines need not be overlined.While I have not as yet tried these lines I'm sure they're very good. Another line worth considering that I do use is the Triangle Taper designed many years ago by Lee Wulff.It's an excellent rollcasting and mending line and with a thin running line it casts for distance excellently as well

 

 

True, but this question had nothing to do with the quality of a rod, rather action and length and why the Clouser rod was of moderate action and on the shorter side. I was always under the impression that stiffer rods were better for bulky, windresistant or weighted flies and that being a river smallmouth angler, why he would prefer a shorter rod. They just cleared it up for me. I already have a rod I like. Was just curious.

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  • 1 month later...
Michael:

 

Being an Orvis and FFF Certified Casting Instructor, my comments on "casting ability" came forth.

 

Mark,

 

Just curious as to where you hail from. I know all of the FFF CI's from Illinois and you're name doesn't ring a bell, so I did a look see on the FFF Website and there are no Marks anywhere in Illinois or surrounding states. Please enlighten me. If you're in the area, I'd love to meet you some time and share some experiences.

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Joseph, on that topic of the "Clouser" model. A while back I had a fellow who wanted me to build for him a St. Croix Clouser rod and so when I was in Park Falls, WI like I am every May, I stopped in to pick up the blank right from the manufacturing shop. The guys in there got a giggle about that model and just told me to purchase a Legend Ultra 9' 8 wt and cut three inches off the base and (in fact slowing the rod ever so slightly) I would have a Clouser special. And then they laughed and said, "But make sure you tell him about all the R & D that went on with that rod" :D

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Moderate action thows larger loops

 

John,

That's not entirely true, you can throw a real tight loop with a slower rod. It's all a matter of where you stop the rod. Most flycasters, however, have a hard time doing that and thus throw a wider loop. Slow rods just don't allow you to easily throw a tight loop with long line and fast line speed that you need for saltwater, etc. That's why the saltwater guys use fast rods for the wind they confront. Too many people confuse rod action with loop size. Rod action is just how fast a rod recovers from the loaded position. Loop size is created by where the rod tip stops relative to the straight tip rod path. The farther from the path, the larger the loop. With slower/softer rods that does not change. What does change is the relative position of the rod butt. You'll have a larger arc because of the greater arc needed to keep the rod tip path straight.

 

FWIW

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John,

That's not entirely true, you can throw a real tight loop with a slower rod. It's all a matter of where you stop the rod. Most flycasters, however, have a hard time doing that and thus throw a wider loop. Slow rods just don't allow you to easily throw a tight loop with long line and fast line speed that you need for saltwater, etc. That's why the saltwater guys use fast rods for the wind they confront. Too many people confuse rod action with loop size. Rod action is just how fast a rod recovers from the loaded position. Loop size is created by where the rod tip stops relative to the straight tip rod path. The farther from the path, the larger the loop. With slower/softer rods that does not change. What does change is the relative position of the rod butt. You'll have a larger arc because of the greater arc needed to keep the rod tip path straight.

 

FWIW

Anyone looking to be a better caster would do well to contact Miller.He can be a little full of himself(sorry,Mike)but if you can get past that he's a helluva caster and an equally good teacher.

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