Jim J Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 Exactly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dodge Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 You know........ Worms cost anywhere from $2.50 to $3.00 a dozen!!! That's crazy! I don't buy worms very often and the cost is the reason why. Plus they seem to rip in half on me back cast. I mean think about it. If you break it down that comes out to .22 to .25 cents per worm! Is the worm on the endangered species list? This is why I think some kind of a coupon program would be better than having a deposit on worms. The cost of worms is out of control so I don't think adding a deposit and driving the cost per dozen even higher is the way to go. There needs to be an incentive for people not to leave the containers along our rivers or even the incentive to pick up an abandoned container with a coupon on it. Who knows, maybe they'll even pick-up some other stuff while their at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kast Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Bait container with our labels on them.... Perfect! More fuel for our detractors. "G** D*** ISA leaving their crap all over the river banks and lake shores!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Clifford Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 I followed up on this with some key people in the IDNR and would like to see more ideas come forth. What I can say is that we won't be seeing recycling containers in State Parks anytime soon. That was my initial thought shot down. As for ISA logo stamps and coupons and such, that isn't exactly the end result we need to see. What we need to see is the elimination of bait containers on our waterways. Think outside the box if you want to be a hero and make it happen. The IDNR is lucky to be functioning as it exists, so work beyond that parameter and come up with a realistic plan. I'm not looking to discourage anyone, but what we need to see from this is an actual workable plan that has been well thought out with action items presented that are ready for dispersal. I'm with Jim- we're not putting our logo on anything that is going to be flying around our riverbanks. Think more deeply towards the resource..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim bielecki Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 I think the easiest would be to print a coupon and put in the container. The containers are printed by the distributer. The catch would have to be that the coupon is only redeemable with the container....or any container...within one body of water there are only so many bait shops. If ISA were to get involved with this process, ISA would have to print the coupon, and the baitshop would have to agree to accept the coupon. If not...ISA can reimburse the baitshop for the coupons if they were sent but that complicates things more than it needs to be. I think the best idea is to not sell the worms with the container in the first place...again this would have to be the baitshops policy. The customer would come in, buy the worms and then transfer them into their own tuperware container. Remember those "worm canteens" made of partical board...those are great! People use minnow buckets, why not "worm canteens". I wonder if ISA can sell bait canteens through the baitshop? Hmmm. Get the baitshop to agree to a no container policy and try to increase his profits through the sale of bait canteens! There's the incentive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim J Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Geez... You want to think outside the box? This whole discussion is. I have not heard of any other group sponsoring something like this so the whole concept is already outside the box. It's not an advertising coupon! How about a coupon that reads: "The ISA sponsors clean waterways." "If you return this container the ISA will donate "XXX" Or "Help the ISA clean our shores and return the container for an ISA....." The ISA logo WOULD BE IN CONJUNCTION WITH A STATEMENT THAT HELPS OUR WATERWAYS. So maybe even idiots can understand we're trying to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Clifford Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 The point I'm trying to make is that we don't need to have our logo on everything. For what purpose? How much publicity is too much publicity? "Jeeezus...now they have their logo on bait containers, for crying out loud....". The point is that too many bait containers are flying around and entering our watersheds. How do we support an effort to curtail that, realistically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Clifford Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Joz posted at the same time I did. So you have some ideas and options here to work with. Keep it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim bielecki Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Don's idea is also a good one. There are a lot of great plans here! Awareness is good idea, but education is the point of changing people on how they do something. I may be biased but I like my bait canteen idea. People who forget their minnow bucket at home need minnows...what do they do? ....They buy a styrofoam minnow bucket when they are purchasing minnows at the bait shop. ISA can develop their own logo, produce our worm canteens in various sizes and distribute them for purchase at the baitshops. Get the baitshops to agree to the no container policy and share the profits of the bait canteen! Cha-ching...they both win. The customer would then be responsible for remembering to bring in their canteen...hence...your making people become more responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Ferguson Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Not that it adds to the discussion but, if you don't have a minnow bucket, minnows are put in a plastic bag with water, the bag is blown up with air injected in the bag and it is closed off with a rubber band. They've been selling them this way for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dodge Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Wow! This is good. I still like the coupon thing on the container but that's just me. It doesn't have to have the ISA logo on it, actually it should have the IDNR logo on it if anything. If there's a coupon on it, it'll get picked up but that's on the large scale. On a smaller scale if this were to be done using a couple of local bait shops as a test, I would think the bait shops name would have to be on the container with the coupon. "Free advertisement." Obviously there is a problem with the bait containers and obviously it's not going to be solved over night but in the same breath isn't it pretty obvious that this discussion needs to be happening? Lots of good ideas out there, just gotta find the right one. Now if you'll excuse while I step outside of my box for a bit.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Don R Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 1. Encourage every member to do a small clean-up every time they go fishing. Our numbers are huge and we would no doubt make a impact if more would do this. Post your photos of the trash you pick up. You should be just as proud with that 'catch'! 2. Recycle The ideas above are ok. I still think we need to build a better mouse trap here. The mom and pop tackle shop (which is a great name btw) owners would cut costs buy purchasing fewer containers. The tricky part is getting folks to return the containers. The big box stores probably don't care much about saving a few dollars (yes, I cringed when I typed that) but they most likely would be interesting in a 'green' promotion. Let's take a Gander Mountain for example...would they clean and then reuse empty bait containers brought back from customers? Do they need to be cleaned? In some cases, most definitely! Have you ever seen decaying worms on a hot sunny day? Glad I ate breakfast already. My assumption is that a big box store like Walmart buys thier worms pre-packaged. Therefor the smaller tackle stores benefit by reusing the containers and the big box stores would benefit with a 'green' porgram. 3. Reuse Slowly eliminate the plastic and styrofoam containers from the environment. Reusable containers are really the only way to eliminate the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dodge Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Would it be agreed that the bulk of the cost for a dozen worms is for the container itself? Is this pretty much along the same lines as the plastic bottle law in California? Worms should not be aloud to be sold in styrofoam or plastic containers. I like the "green" container idea. That is probably where this has to start. Getting from point "A" to point "B" requires a certain amount of steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Clifford Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Just a thought- what about a biodegradable container? Do they need to be white or blue as well? A brown bio container perhaps... Also, found another discussion on this online. If you find any others, please post them so we have even more ideas. http://www.fish-hawk...0e198a280dcad8d more...... http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=8&ved=0CDEQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wormdigest.org%2Fcomponent%2Foption%2Ccom_joomlaboard%2FItemid%2C50%2Ffunc%2Cview%2Fcatid%2C5%2Fid%2C9137%2F&rct=j&q=biodegradable+worm+containers&ei=F6rAS6yCLITUnAfl2MyWCg&usg=AFQjCNE79AGhenQGWB-f9l739g26ctYj4g&sig2=9u2u-n036h6g2JW9M_nW1w http://www.terracycle.net/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim bielecki Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 I don't know how costly it is but I talked to someone today about packing from "Sunchips". He said they have developed a bag that degrades in 14 weeks. Like Scott said, it really depends on the cost of the container and how easy it is to produce. I'm sure there are packaging facilities that can produce the container....it's getting companies to use them. Bringing the containers in to a bait shop is a good idea to get a discount. It would be nice if they honored containers from any store or shop, which would solve the big box store problem. Statewide, if all packaging for these things were biodegradeable, that would solve the problem in the whole state for every body of water. Next, it would be great to have biodegradeable fishing line, but I have a feeling some fish might get away Jim J....I saw that Seinfeld episode...hilarious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat M Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 I'm with Mike. A composting container such as the peat pot they use in gardening. I'm not sure of the biological requirment of worms but it is a place to start. If left on a stream bank the peat container would decompose and they are readily available now. It would porbably have to be redesigned. They all come with a hole in the bottom. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dodge Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Need a lid................ 10 pots for a $1.99. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Instead of dealing with individual suppliers, bait shops, etc, why not go for the whole enchilada? We've lobbied succesfully in the past, why not lobby for a statewide ban on non-biodegradable bait containers? Politicians love green stuff these days, and we could probably easily enlist the support of every fly fishing, paddling, environmental group out there. I think it would be a fairly easy sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dodge Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Shut yo mouth!! That's what I'm talking about. Why have we let this go on for so long. It should be a very easy fix. Shouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Clifford Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Bingo, Jude. It's already on my list of things to do. A phone call is being placed Monday morning. Remember the lead ban thing? It's time for another meeting on the river over a slice of pie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim bielecki Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 I think contacting our local legislatures is also a good idea. For my district I contact Darlene Senger...if you aren't sure who is in your district here is how to find out: http://chicago.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=chicago&cdn=citiestowns&tm=29&gps=546_281_1020_516&f=00&tt=12&bt=1&bts=1&st=24&zu=http%3A//www.elections.il.gov/DistrictLocator/SelectSearchType.aspx%3FNavLink%3D1 Spread the information to everyone you know. This can be done! It takes a lot of hoopla to do it but it can be done...remember....awareness, education and support is how to make the change happen. I have had conversations with Darlene Senger's office regarding the Fox River and other issues. I've been pleased with the correspondence. I like Jude's motivation on this...the whole enchillada!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Clifford Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 I'm working with a Senator and staff on this issue after our conversation this morning. First and foremost is finding places where this has been done before so we know what kind of ground rules we're looking at going in. Typically, a state-wide effort would best serve the overall purpose of eliminating the problem....but we may have to settle for what we can get in the end and use it as a measuring stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 http://articles.mcall.com/2004-03-14/features/3519108_1_bait-fishing-anglers http://www.wormdigest.org/component/option,com_joomlaboard/Itemid,50/func,view/catid,5/id,9137/ http://www.fish-hawk.net/hawktalk/viewtopic.php?printertopic=1&t=24673&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&vote=viewresult&sid=a7f9566e1251e48a30e198a280dcad8d http://www.ncworms.com/ That's great, Mike! Here are some links to other conversations I found on line. It doesn't look like there are many (any?) options out there. The "ncworms" outfit claims to sell theirs in biodegradable containers. I just e-mailed them asking for info on their cups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Clifford Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 http://articles.mcal...fishing-anglers That's a great find right there, Jude. Exactly what we needed to see. Cornstarch appears to be one option, from another link there. I was scratching my head trying to figure out exactly how a container degrades...seeing as how it IS filled with dirt. Wonder what the shelf life is on such a thing. This page might work as a price comparison tool if we can find the cost of alternative bait containers: http://www.livebaitv...g.com/cups.html Oregon has proposed this rule as well: http://arcweb.sos.st...cy_04_16_91.txt New Hampshire: http://www.gencourt....991/HB0216.html Mass. http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dmf/publications/dmfnq497.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted April 13, 2010 Report Share Posted April 13, 2010 I see several proposed bills, but none seem to have made it into the state regs (Oregon, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts). "Big styrofoam" must have some powerful lobbyists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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