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Why couldn't there be a $5 deposit on these darn things. Maybe we would be seeing them all over the place then. :angry: Sorry had to vent.

Bill

I hear ya. I see them all over Busse woods by the lake. Just ignorance! I don't think the bait shop owners would want to be bothered with having to send them in for their money so I don't expect to ever see that happen. billyk
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This is something I have thought about in the past as well.

Even went so far as to speak with people that know quite a bit about these kinds of things.

 

Here's the problem:

 

Industry doesn't take well to basically what is considered a "bottle bill".

Even though it is a "deposit" and people get that money returned to them, there is still a perception that this item now costs more. As a result, people will buy less of them.

That is one barrier to overcome.

Are the bait suppliers a formidable opponent, or a willing partner?

The shop owners?

You would find out quickly with such a plan.

 

Where we do have an advantage over an actual bottle bill is that we aren't faced with the dilemma of returning a "waste product" to the same location that keeps food ( a major problem with grocery stores and empty pop bottles over the last 35 years).

 

Perhaps recycling bins in each of our state parks might work to keep some of these containers out of landfills.

Just a thought, although there are probably also good reasons why it would never fly.

 

More to the point, from an article:

Some of the worst places for recycling are large public events. For instance, baseball games at Boston's Fenway Park draw more than 36,000 fans, but there are no recycling containers in sight.

 

A Little League park in Mansfield, Conn., may have a better game plan — a transparent receptacle with a recycling symbol stamped on the outside. The containers have increased the recycling of bottles and cans in town parks by about 60 percent.

 

"It was like 'Yes! This is the answer to public events!'" says Virginia Walton, Mansfield's recycling coordinator.

 

Walton says the key to getting people to recycle more is to give them a way to do it — and make it a no-brainer.

 

When deposit laws and curbside recycling programs are combined, more

containers are recycled at a lower cost to taxpayers.

Bottle bills continue to work in areas where curbside recycling is less effective, and it is the best solution for the billions of beverages consumed on the go.

Container deposit laws have been beneficial in other ways: saving taxpayer money by reducing waste disposal costs, reducing our reliance on foreign oil, and creating new jobs in the recycling sector.

Bottle Bills make producers responsible!

In many countries producers are responsible for their beverage packaging waste. Here in the United States, producers are getting a free ride, and the ride's on us,

the taxpayers. We pay for containers that are landfilled, incinerated or littered.

Beverage producers don't want to take responsibility for their packaging waste. Instead, they want to replace deposit laws with "litter taxes" that would raise money to fund litter cleanups and public relations campaigns—an effort that is much like

mopping the floor while the sink is overflowing.

 

In the early 1970s a new campaign was launched with the theme “People Start Pollution, People Can Stop It.”

Indeed. Put the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of consumers and shine the spotlight away from themselves.

This is exactly what fueled the old "Keep America Beautiful" campaign.

The crying Indian in 1971 (who actually wasn't an American Indian at all), the heartfelt commercials and ads-

“Keep America Beautiful was founded in 1953 by group of businessmen from the beverage and packaging industries. KAB has a significant number of corporate sponsors. Its strongest support comes from beverage and packaging industries but includes a wide range of industries.” (SourceWatch)

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Guest rich mc

a smart bait shop would offer a lower price if the anglers brings in their own non disposable container example a 2 piece plastic minnow bucket compared to a styrofoam one . they could promote as a clean environment program rich

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Guest Don R

The crying Indian in 1971 (who actually wasn't an American Indian at all), the heartfelt commercials and ads-

“Keep America Beautiful was founded in 1953 by group of businessmen from the beverage and packaging industries.

 

That commercial had an impact on me at a very young age. I've been disgusted with those that litter ever since. I do some trash pick-ups but I know I could always do more! I think the easiest way to eliminate the glass and plastic bottle problem is to promote reusable containers.

 

a smart bait shop would offer a lower price if the anglers brings in their own non disposable container example a 2 piece plastic minnow bucket compared to a styrofoam one . they could promote as a clean environment program rich

 

This sounds like a great idea Rich. I'm assuming that most bait shop owners buy in bulk and then transfer their bait into individual containers. If that's the case, your idea would work perfectly.

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How about a Bait Bag?

 

http://www.jrwfishin.../bait_pouch.asp

 

The guy explains it here:

http://ezinearticles...rever&id=525905

 

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl8jt6V0CFY&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl8jt6V0CFY&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl8jt6V0CFY&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

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a smart bait shop would offer a lower price if the anglers brings in their own non disposable container example a 2 piece plastic minnow bucket compared to a styrofoam one . they could promote as a clean environment program rich

or..if they bring the styrofoam one back and have it filled at a discount. either way would be a good idea. don't know how many i've picked along the banks. they are a little dirty, but could probably be reused, after all, they are holding dirt and worms anyway. :blink:

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Some good ideas, and how about making them out of a material that will break down , so at least the slobs junk would disappear.

 

One day I picked up 50 plus containers below the Wilmington Dam, picked up 40 plus more the next day.

 

As many of you know Zach and I do many, many cleanups on our own. Mostly fishing related junk and alcohol related[ in an alcohol free park- HA},just wish folks would tote their empty containers back with them. Lord knows, they are now lighter then when they brought them down to the river

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Norm, that's what I was thinking too. If we can't get a guy to dispose of it at least it breaks down harmlessly in a bit?

 

I wonder how long it takes lawn bags we use to disintegrate in landfills?

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I saw quite a few of the blue plastic worm containers floating about today in the river.

We've graduated from styrofoam.

Had to ask myself "which is worse?".

 

Elimination altogether would be a ground-breaking achievement for someone with the balls to make it happen.

 

 

Jim brings up a key point though.

How much of this is aesthetics, and how much is environmental damage?

 

More on that later.

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I saw quite a few of the blue plastic worm containers floating about today in the river.

We've graduated from styrofoam.

Had to ask myself "which is worse?".

 

Elimination altogether would be a ground-breaking achievement for someone with the balls to make it happen.

 

 

Jim brings up a key point though.

How much of this is aesthetics, and how much is environmental damage?

 

More on that later.

 

I just did the kids trout event this past weekend. When I wasn't helping I was picking up trash around the lake and right at the feet of other anglers. I was polite, I asked them if they had any trash, if the fish were biting and offered some advice. I think awareness and education is the most important aspect of pollution of all kinds. People need to know that "we" care and that it's not ok to leave their trash behind. I do this kind of picking up everywhere I see other fisherman to show them that it's not ok. I also think that the appearance of a fishing spot makes a difference. If it looks trashed people seem to think that it's ok to trash it too because it's not going to get any better. They also seem to think it's the DNR or the Forest Preserve's responsibility.

 

I keep garbage bags in my truck everywhere I go. I think picking up is especially educational to families that fish with their kids. We are showing them and teaching them the right thing to do.

 

I haven't done this as much but families who go to the parks often feel they can leave their trash behind. If I notice they have no garbage bags I have passed out garbage bags to those people to make them more responsible.

 

I also know that contacting the local police dept. about littering can be effective. They are required to respond to every call that comes in to their dept. If they get enough complaints about a problem they are required to act on it. I also know that in this economy the local police deptartments are being pushed to write more tickets. There are litter laws that they can write tickets for...sometimes those tickets can be costly.

 

Yes, the trash looks bad and may not pose as an immediate environmental hazard, but some of it that is metal breaks down and releases heavy metals into the water. Other materals collect along the shore. Glass and aluminum may seem harmless, however, animals who use the shore of a body of water don't have shoes and can easily cut open their feet...especially at night. Other materials may collect at the bottom of a body of water which can pose as obstacles to potential spawning sites. And don't forget all that left over fishing line...major danger for aquatic birds!

 

I haven't done this yet but I intend to pass out pollution awareness cards with phone contacts to fisherman I come accross. We may not "catch" anyone in the act of polluting but I think by handing out information it helps educate people to change their bad habits.

 

Education is the only way...the ISA way.

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I like this topic and I think this "Bait Container" problem is something that the ISA should lead the way in correcting.

I was upset last year with the abandoned bait containers I was picking up along our rivers.

Here's the way I see it.........

This is a huge problem not only here in our state but all over our Country. In this "day-and-age" that we live in (green), it's sad to

say that this problem even exists. "Awareness" is the key. The right people (Senators/Congressmen) are not fully aware of

this problem.

It's kind of like the starter on my bass van. The starter has a dead-spot in it

and from time to time I have to rock/bounce the bass van around to get it to start. Sometimes I may even need to roll underneath

the bass van and give the starter a good WHACK with a hammer to get it to start. Now I know at some point I'm going to have to fix

this problem and I'll probably realize this at some inconvenient time when I need to be somewhere at a certain time. Is this what we're

doing? Why do we continue to pick these bait containers up without trying to correct the problem. The problem is always going to be there

until it's fixed.

Now I know this is going to take some time and I'm sure that a few of you will say, "Well if you do this, then this is going to happen and

then it's going to result in this happening." and so on and so on.

Can we (the ISA) discuss this problem at regional meetings, toss around ideas and lead the way to the state senate so that maybe someday

Illinois can lead the way in correcting this problem across this great Nation? If not the ISA, then who?

We all want our grandchildren to hopefully fish our rivers and stream and catch trophy smallmouth. Wouldn't it be nice if we could give them

cleaner waterways to do it.

I hope I'm not out of line by throwing the ISA in on this but like I said before, "If not the ISA, then who?"

Someone has to grab the horse by it's reigns and take control.

Has this become a problem that is too much trouble to fix?

I had an idea of returning the empty containers to the place where the bait was purchased and receive a certain amount off (for each container turned in)

the price of the next purchase of bait. This way the bait-fisherman would want to make sure they take their empty containers with them.

There's all kinds of good ideas out there, many of which I've read here.

That's just how I'm seeing things.wink.gif

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In order for a change to take place with bait containers, someone is going to have to come out with a better, CHEAPER and greener way of transporting nightcrawlers. If it's not cheaper, or at least cost competitive, even if it is much better for the environment, it will probably not be excepted by the majority.

Look at the lead issue. Lead is bad for the environment, but no one has come up with a better, cheap alternative yet so lead fishing tackle is not going away anytime soon even though politicians were trying to outlaw lead baits.

I agree that bait containers as well as water bottles, beer cans, and tons of other items can be a problem when they become litter, but without a good, workable alternative, what can the ISA, or anybody else do? Having an option that works is the only effective way to convince people to change the way they've been doing things.

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I think the idea of a deposit may be good. Much like the shopping carts at Aldi.

 

Buy the bait....the tackle shop collects a 25 cent deposit and you get your quarter back upon return.

 

Or...maybe the idea of getting a discount for each container returned. This can be communicated and worked through with local tackle and bait shops. They are the ones who would need to be involved with this type of solution.

 

I think any of the ideas above can be successful if ISA can facilitate how to communicate solving this problem with bait shops.

 

What about the 5 cent deposits on glass bottles? In Michigan they have this. Can there be some kind of deposit on bait containers; vending machine???; insert the container and get back a nickle??? Just an idea.

 

The DNR may have some good ideas. It is a problem...I'm not sure how it can be solved but this pollution is no different than line being left behind, tackle containers, plastic bags, pop cans ect. It is worth talking about.

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I think you're right, Jim. It is worth talking about.

I think it definitely has to be a program set up through the IDNR. Imagine this if you will............

You go to your local bait shop and buy a dozen worms. You fish the worms out and low and behold there at the a bottom of the container is a stamp,

$.05, $.10, $.15, $.20, $.25 off your next purchase of worms upon return of the empty container. Now let's say worms cost $3.00 per dozen and a person shows up

at a bait shop and turns in 30 $.10 containers and receives a free dozen worms. Would that be worth his effort for picking up any empty containers he found

laying along our river banks? I believe so. Would people leave empty containers, with coupons on them, on the side of our rivers? I think not.

I would imagine that there is probably some type of grant money available for the IDNR to start up a program like this.

Now I know in order for this to work some how the worm farmers or who ever the heck we get worms from have to know that in order to sell their worms in the

state of Illinois the worms must be in these containers which can be purchased through the IDNR Worm Container Recycle Program (WCRP).

Seems like a good idea on computer screen paper.smile.gif

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NEWMAN: (peering at bottle label) What is this 'MI, ten cents'?

 

KRAMER: That's Michigan. In Michigan you get ten cents.

 

NEWMAN: Ten cents!?

 

KRAMER: Yeah.

 

NEWMAN: Wait a minute. You mean you get five cents here, and ten cents

 

there. You could round up bottles here and run 'em out to Michigan for the

 

difference.

 

KRAMER: No, it doesn't work.

 

NEWMAN: What d'you mean it doesn't work? You get enough bottles

 

together...

 

KRAMER: Yeah, you overload your inventory and you blow your margins on

 

gasoline. Trust me, it doesn't work.

 

JERRY: (re-entering) Hey, you're not talking that Michigan deposit

 

bottle scam again, are you?

 

KRAMER: No, no, I'm off that.

 

NEWMAN: You tried it?

 

KRAMER: Oh yeah. Every which way. Couldn't crunch the numbers. It drove

 

me crazy.

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[Jerry's Apartment]

 

Kramer and Newman are still on Jerry's couch. Kramer is watching TV,

 

While Newman has been working something out on a pad.

 

NEWMAN: I don't understand. You fill an eighteen-wheeler?

 

KRAMER: No, an eighteen-wheeler's no good. Too much overhead. You got

 

permits, weigh-stations, tolls... Look, you're way outta your league.

 

NEWMAN: I wanna learn. I want to know why.

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[Newman's Apartment}

 

Newman sits on his couch. He's using an old mechanical adding machine

 

and a pad to work on permutations for the 'Michigan deposit bottle scam'. There

 

are spools of used paper from the adding machine all over the table and maps of

 

the northeastern states of the US pinned up on the wall. He taps out a

 

series of number, pulls the handle and reads the result, then looks at what he's

 

written on his pad.

 

NEWMAN: Damn!

 

Frustrated, he sits back. He notices a framed photograph of his mother.

 

A thought occurs.

 

NEWMAN (V.O.): Oh, Mother's Day. (inspiration strikes) Wait a second.

 

Mother's Day?!

 

He starts typing figures into the adding machine rapidly. He mouths

 

numbers to himself, shrugging as he makes estimates. When he finishes he tears the

 

paper strip from the machine, compares it to figures on his pad.

 

NEWMAN: (triumphant) Yessss!

 

In celebration he swigs from a bottle of soda.

 

NEWMAN: Ahaha!

 

 

 

[Hallway]

 

Newman hurries up to Kramer's door and hammers

on it with his fist. He

 

waits a few seconds, then impatiently hammers agin.

 

NEWMAN: Come on Kramer!

 

The door opens to reveal Kramer midway through a shave, holding a

 

razor, with

 

foam on his face.

 

KRAMER: Wha...?

 

NEWMAN: It's the truck, Kramer. The truck!

 

KRAMER: Look, Newman, I told you to let this thing go.

 

NEWMAN: No, no, no, no no. Listen to me. Most days, the post office

 

sends one truckload of mail to the second domestic regional sorting facility in

 

Sagenaw, Michigan.

 

KRAMER: (interested) Uh-huh.

 

NEWMAN: But, on the week before holidays, we see a surge. On

 

alentine's Day, we send two trucks. On Christmas, four, packed to the brim. And tomorrow,

 

if history is any guide, will see some spillover into a fifth truck.

 

KRAMER: (realisation) Mother's Day.

 

NEWMAN: The mother of all mail days. And guess who signed up for the

 

truck.

 

KRAMER: A free truck? Oh boy, that completely changes our cost

 

structure. Our G and A goes down fifty percent.

 

NEWMAN: (excited) We carry a coupla bags of mail, and the rest is ours!

 

KRAMER: Newman, you magnificent bastard, you did it!

 

NEWMAN: (triumph) Let the collecting begin!

 

They embrace joyfully.

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I think you're right, Jim. It is worth talking about.

I think it definitely has to be a program set up through the IDNR. Imagine this if you will............

You go to your local bait shop and buy a dozen worms. You fish the worms out and low and behold there at the a bottom of the container is a stamp,

$.05, $.10, $.15, $.20, $.25 off your next purchase of worms upon return of the empty container. Now let's say worms cost $3.00 per dozen and a person shows up

at a bait shop and turns in 30 $.10 containers and receives a free dozen worms. Would that be worth his effort for picking up any empty containers he found

laying along our river banks? I believe so. Would people leave empty containers, with coupons on them, on the side of our rivers? I think not.

I would imagine that there is probably some type of grant money available for the IDNR to start up a program like this.

Now I know in order for this to work some how the worm farmers or who ever the heck we get worms from have to know that in order to sell their worms in the

state of Illinois the worms must be in these containers which can be purchased through the IDNR Worm Container Recycle Program (WCRP).

Seems like a good idea on computer screen paper.smile.gif

 

I think you've got something here. Ideas like this take time to put into place on a statewide level. Coming up with ideas like yours is a great start. I really like the coupon at the bottom idea because even if the people dumped their bait into their own container for another purchase they are still bringing back the container. It's my opinion that it can be piloted first at a bait shop who is interested. Then maybe do another bait shop. Collect the results and submit it to the powers that be. One step at a time. One step at a time. I think that if we can show a successful program, it would eventually expand. Come to think of it, why do baitshops sell containers in the first place? You don't get a plastic bag of minnows...you have to bring your own minnow bucket.

 

To move forward with this I think a plan should be developed to present to a baitshop. The baitshop needs to be on board with the plan. Recruit a couple people to assist in being responsible for following the plan...communicate with the bait shop, talk about what's going on, talk about any issues. It would be up to those who agreed to follow this program to keep a log of the results. The final step would be to look at how the program went, finalize the program and then figure out how to expand it.

 

Does anyone know of ideas like this in any other state?

 

I think it all has to begin with cooperating baitshops.

 

Even starting with a refund policy can be a good start. Have an agreement with a baitshop..."bring in 10 containers and get a lure ect."

 

Good discussion!

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Guest Don R

A bait shop owner would be well served to have a 'bring in your empty bait containers' day.

 

Bait buyers would be notified of the scheduled day at the time of purchase.

 

A store discount of 10% would be given by the bait shop owner to those that bring in the empty containers. This 10% discount would be offset by increased sales the day of the event and the reuse of the recycled containers.

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I like the idea. If we could get the info printed on the bottom of the container, no matter when or who found it, it could be redeemed. I think the ISA might be able to even sponsor some of the cost but we'd have to do a test run and see what we're talking about numbers wise. Printing might not be too costly but you have to think about a balance of how much would it take to have a guy want to bring it back and what we (someone) can afford as an incentive. Also, the printing would have to be localized per shop. In other words we can't print 1000 generic cups with one location as a redemption because no one would drive and hour to get a .25 redemption or discount.

 

Maybe a split cost between the shop and the ISA and maybe event the printing company.

 

I would think most of our local shops buy from one or two big distributors and the crawlers may be prepackaged at the distributors. If that's the case you either have to start working with the source (distributors) or have a big "refill the crawler day" at your local shop where we have a bunch of ISA guys show up to repackage crawlers (or whatever) into eco friendly, redeemable, ISA Logo'd containers.

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