Mark K

Did you confirm on the county GIS that he indeed owns both sides? I took a fast look at it, and looks to me like property lines go up to the bank. Does that stretch in question fall between these floats? https://paddleillinoiswatertrails.org/2015/06/13/kishwaukee-river-water-trails/#Redhorse Have you called the conservation police to ask if it's cool to float thru there? Have you talked to anyone that was actually busted for trespassing?

According to this, the whole K3 is Illinois Public water. The entire length and surface area in Illinois, including all backwater lakes and sloughs open to the main channel or body of water at normal flows or stages, are open to the public unless limited to a head of navigation as stated. https://www.dnr.illinois.gov/WaterResources/Pages/PublicWaters.asp Is it on the map?

I don't see what is gray about what you posted. So the Kish is not on the Illinois Public waters list, but there are numerous Forest Preserves which are public owned. The old guy can yell all he wants. If there is a public launch at one end of a float and a another at the other end, I am guessing you are good to go. https://paddleillinoiswatertrails.org/2015/06/13/kishwaukee-river-water-trails/ And again, clearly the Boone County folks can legally block the river, which is their right. Regarding accessing a stream from a bridge. I heard that one two, but never from anybody other than another fisherman. so that one goes under "fake news" till otherwise researched.

You can always contact the CPO directly before your guerilla mission. There is not that many of them. He is the guy that ultimately who is going to decide whats legal or not and unless you have time to waste (I don't) in court, nor do I want anything on my record. It took a day or two and it was not the answer wanted, but he did get back to me. https://www.dnr.illinois.gov/LawEnforcement/Documents/DistrictCPOPhonesAndEmails.pdf

Wow, now I remember those. But I think you would need about 40 of them to to canoe the Mazon.

I think that is true, but the high water mark thing is if the land owner only up to the bank. I looked at the GIS for a friends property located on a non navigable tributary of the Kankakee, his property only goes up to the bank. I remember him saying that people could access the creek up to the high water mark. So that whole thing about the property line extending straight down the center of the waterway is not occurring everywhere. So I was wondering If you put a canoe in a totally legal spot, say someone gave you permission and you have a spot to legally take it out. Basically one guy owns one side the other guy owns the other-side straight down the middle of the stream. No matter what you will be trespassing on someone's property. I am guessing yes. But does someone have to file a complaint? If you get a ticket how does the cop have any idea who's property it is? If a cop rolled up on you out of the blue, with nothing out of the ordinary other tha he knows you are not on public land, can he write you a ticket? (the cop I talked to sounded like he would) If you we to say, Oh yeah. I know Jim Bob he is okay with me to be here. How would he know you weren't lying. So both the Depaul and Amercan White Water links say: Criminal trespass on private land is a class B misdemeanor (the cop I talked to said you could be charged with a felony) and occurs where notice has been given indicating that entry is forbidden.12) So is that the wrinkle? You have to be given notice either by a sign or otherwise?

This is Texas, not Illinois. The law is totally different state to state. In Texas I think you can drive with a beer in one hand and an M16 in the other. Something like that.

It explains why a land owner might not want you on their property, but not the law regarding whether they have a right to. My recent Googling seems to have cleared that up. The law really isn't all that vague. On a navigable stream, if a landowner owns the stream up to the center of the river you only have the right to "navigate thru" not to fish or hunt there. That's a new one on me. On a non-navigable stream you do not have the "navigate thru" right. So basically you have no right to be there. at all. The links I posted do not say that. I think they infer it.

even worse. Page 363. http://via.library.depaul.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2408&context=law-review "In addition, many beds are conveyed because a grant by an owner of riparian land is presumed to convey title to the center of the thread of a stream.Thus, the beds of most Illinois rivers and streams are privately owned. Private ownership of river beds severely inhibits the public's right to engage in recreational activities on Illinois waterways. Under Illinois common law the owner of a river bed has the exclusive right to hunt and fish over the water lying above the bed. Furthermore, only the bed owner may enter upon the water covering that segment of the bed owned by him or her. Consequently, swimming by members of the public may be prohibited by the bed owners."

https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Wiki/access:il? didn't know this and it refers to a navigable stream, so if a stream is navigable and someone owns the streambed then you only have the right to "navigate" (float?) thru it. Extent of Public Rights in Navigable and Non-Navigable Waters In Illinois, “the public have an easement for purpose of navigation in waters which are navigable in fact, regardless of the ownership of the soil.”8) If the state owns the streambeds, then the public has the further right to hunt and fish, and generally recreate on the water.9) If the streambed is privately owned, however, and the stream is navigable in fact, then the public only has the right to navigate the water, and has no right to hunt or fish in that water.10) It is unclear whether activities incident to navigation, such as portaging, are allowed. In meandered streams, which are held in public trust, portaging most likely is permissible because the federal navigation servitude should apply to these streams. Keep in mind that Illinois has a strong interest in conserving natural resources and in protecting and improving its physical environment,11) so care should be taken. As explained below, portaging on private land is most likely not allowed in Illinois.

That's the point, in one mile there might be 10 land owners- that own only 1 half the stream. In the entire stretch I see only one or two sections where someone owns both banks and one of those is the Boy Scouts who own a huge amount of land. One could not possibly get everyones permission to access it, but if the law says that the land owner must own both banks to own the streambed, then you should not need it.

Which is scary, but not suprising in this state.

Pulling a gun out on someone today would be a bold move.

Can someone simplify this for me? (He asked hoping Mike Clifford chimes in) So non-navigable waterway. Land owner owns property on both sides of the stream. He owns the stream bed below. I get that. So. Non Navigable stream, property lines go right down the middle of the stream. You enter the "non-navigable waterway" legally and stay within the highest water mark , or to be safe in the water. Are you good to go?

Okay. I got it now. So it looks like the property lines for most of the river are right in the middle. One guy owns one side another owns the other and a heck of a lot of it is Boy Scout property. So what does that mean?

Okay I saw the sign. I wonder if that's the guy I talked to once. He was really nice.

This is the only reel I have found to be next to indestructible. Daiwa has been making them since the 80's. They used to be made in japan. the ones have are. Now they are made somewhere else. I don't know if they are any worse. They never bind up from taking dunking. The drag is really smooth. https://www.daiwa.com/us/contents/reels/ss_t/index.html The trade-off is, by today's standards they are pretty clunky right out of the box.

Article is geared more towards someone not from around here, or totally unfamiliar with them but overall a good summary of those rivers. What you could condense it a couple pages. Also an article of interest, possibly to those of us that frequent Sylvania.. about the Middle Fork of the Ontonagon. This was all trout stuff. I love the photography in this magazine, which I would call understated.. They have a feature in each one called "exposure" , which features nothing but photos and a one sentence caption.

Here is some bamboo being prepared to be made into a flyrod. This blows my mind how they do this.

My first time too. John and Co. did a great job. The grounds are impressive too, never been there.

Cool, you can just drag pics in. Here is one of Cory's Deer Hair flies.