Mark K

Joz- It's not milfoil. Go get your wading boots there is probably a specimen stuck to them from your last visit to the salad bar. Same plant. I can't testify that they are expanding on the Kank. In my floating days there were vast bed below a creek on the 113 side. For the life of my I can't remember the name of the creek. Anyway get above that creek no algae, no weeds. I have a book on aquatic plants somewhere (dork, I know) I'll identify it. It is not, eel grass. I once tried growing a plant fish tank I had Val-eel grass. Aint it. Eric- there is much muck which may have been deposited by recent high water, but there is also lots of sand. Sand that you can stand on. If you could strip away some of the algae it looks as if the lower stretches, say between the boat launch and Area 8 are creeping up. Your second wade through the Kank was thru the very spot I bring up. It was dead of summer, very clear and still fishable with non-weedless hardware.

Just to stay on track here: This isn't the plant I'm seeing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallisneria I had these in my aquarium. The weeds that are growing in the Kank have round cylinder shaped stems and "leaves" for lack of a better word with branches rather than long flat leaves.

Why do you suppose the murkiness is caused by the dams? In all the seminars and arguments I've heard on both sides that has never come up. That is a new one on me. I advocate dam removal because they serve no purpose and are death traps. I've never heard any reasonable argument that dams do anything positive for the health of the river.

DUUUHH. Don't know how I missed it. Really cool guys.

Wow! That is impressive! Exactly what was the ISA's contribution? Nice work, to say the least.

I remember going in over my waders in one spot in a pool that was slightly higher, but not much. That whole spot is filled in with sand now. I remember the bottom being a whole lot harder to wade because of the cobble rock. The rock is still there it's just smoothed out with sand and further coated with the new green carpeting. That has to impact all the bottom dwelling creatures. It's pretty sad when you think about it. 2 seasons ago a little furthur downstream it was just choked with weeds, not algae. And yes, come to think of it in the last few years we have caught more LM. I remember them looking slightly unusual and just attributed it to them being river fish. Maybe they were spotted bass. I think I have pictures some where. A few were pretty nice fish.

They might as well be sod farms. My brother-in-law's subdivision in Bolingbrook is surrounded by a native grass prairie. It's beautiful. Maybe there should be a "run-off" tax.

I waded Area 7 yesterday, pretty thoroughly. I feel like there is a whole lot more sand and muck than not too long ago. Like it's gradually filling in. The gaps between the cobbly rocks are gone. I remember certain parts having a limestone bottom-clean are now just loaded with soft silty muck. Like you see on the Des Plaines. I stepped knee deep in one part and could feel the carbide studs on my wading boots tap rock eventually. So there is rock under there. It's like the whole character of that stretch has changed. Slowly filling in. Is it eventually going to be a big sand pit like the boat launch and above? Do rivers end up doing doing this naturally? Not in the course of 15 years i would not think. Furthur upstream, below Rock Creek the weeds are covering every square inch of the river bottom. Actually they are not weeds but algae. Usually the first cold snap would kill it all off. Then it would die, float off and we would be back to bare rock. Am i wrong? What would cause this maybe the sod farms? the upstream sections are far less weedy, but I remember them being almost completely weed free. Am I off base on this? Do you guys remember differently?

Tim I was going to PM this to you. Your inbox is full. The old plantings have probably matured to the point that we can transplant water willow from existing beds on the Fox. In the early days of the plantings people have tried this. It's not practical. It can be done in kiddie pools on a very small scale. Very small. Too much water, space and time involved.

Good enough. I'm sold. If it says Clouser, it's got to be good.

The line on my 8 wt is getting ratty. I have only one spool for my reel, an old 3M System 2 78M. Been looking on Ebay for a spare. The rod is a Loomis GL3 8 Wt. The line will be used to throw bass bugs in lakes and ponds, it will throw clousers in the rivers for smallies and I'll fishing for steelhead and salmon in the tribs in winter. Basically I need a good generic floating line. Oh yeah, I might overline it to a 9 wt. I'm willing to spend about 60 bucks if it's worth it. Recommendations from the panel of experts.

No, you don't. You just don't LIVE on the river and have been fed a lot of propaganda, by the dreaded C.O.W. organization. I can count my fantastic days in fall on one finger. I'll give the spot out cause I fished it a thousand times since and never got squat. Pound it sensless for all I care. I've damn near drowned trying to wade up to it. Stand on warner Bridge facing east (upstream) there is a little "peninsula" sticking out on your right hand side. There is a deep run there. I was floating from Kankakee with a guy who is now a winning walleye pro. We picked up a few fish here and there. He was tossing a 1/2 oz .He was chucking a 1/2 oz spinnerbait and just started pounding 12-15" smallies. It got funny. At one point he was whipping the spinnerbait out of the water and slinging it out fast. A couple of fish busted the surface chasing the spinnerbait out of the water. It was ridiculous. I don't remember how many fish we caught, probabably 20 or 30. I put on a crankbait and stuck a nice walleye. And then...it stopped. Dead stopped. For about 8 years. I'm not doubting anyones word. I've picked up fish here and there. Raymond is right they are feeding on shad. And after your eyes come back into focus Carefully read that post. Walked and walked. Fct is. Those fish pack up, take work to find, and dissapear in a heartbeat. If you are a regular guy with limited time, this is the time to get other stuff done. Concentrate on summer fishing when fish are dumb (er than us). When you find 'em it's Nirvana. If nirvana were easy everyone would be in nirvana. And if you can prove me wrong God bless you and please take me fishing and I willl ever...ever sing your praises. I was visiting our "library" this morning reading a copy of Outdoor Notebook and whether the issue was 10 years old or current there is always the overly enthusiastic fall article. Such that one would think that a hybrid pirahna/cuda had invaded the kank, or the Fox or the Illlinois.. That said I should not pick on O.N., of all the mags its the best AND free. I read every issue. Bob's articles are fresh and so are Jonn's.

True, but this question had nothing to do with the quality of a rod, rather action and length and why the Clouser rod was of moderate action and on the shorter side. I was always under the impression that stiffer rods were better for bulky, windresistant or weighted flies and that being a river smallmouth angler, why he would prefer a shorter rod. They just cleared it up for me. I already have a rod I like. Was just curious.

Most C.O.W.s (Cliche Outdoor Writers) would use the word "magical". Mark my words. You'll be in the Outdoor Notebook before 2008 is over. Just don't lay it on too thick.

Yep. That answers it. Find the one you like. Write your name on it.

Wannabee wasn't the word I was looking for in that other post. Cliche was. You are going to have to work either a heron or an owl somewhere in there. I was impressed that you and Norm hit me with both the one-two punch. OUCH Those two birds seem to be attracted to midwestern outdoor writers. A kingfisher occasionally makes it in and I have to admit, I am enomoured with the Kankakee River osprey. If you are far enough up north, it's the ultimate cliche bird...the loon. Pretend you are writing for Gray's Sporting Journal, only on a budget. Go for something different, if it's going to be a heron make it a green back. Better yet work a cedar waxwing in there or a flicker. I got it... Scarlet Tananger! Ahhh..the crisp fall air... a heron drifted lazily across the horizon.....

are rod characteristics that are beneficial for throwing wind resistant flies like poppers the same as those for throwing weighted flies like clousers? Why do salt water guys use such fast action rods? Because of wind?

I noticed the Bob Clouser rod is 8'9" and moderate action. I thought moderate actions were for more delicate prsentations and it seems to me that a longer rod might be better when wading in deeper water or fishing out of a canoe or kayak. Is that not correct? Panel of experts: what gives?

You can't fold them, but Fiskars kiddie scissors go right thru superline. They have blunt tips so they wont poke holes in your pocket. They cost about 3 bucks.

good same here.

Don abnd Norm-Sorry about the tone of that. regarding the "woman" crack. I was trying to be funny, does not always come accross over the web. I was going to say that you sound like your former business partner, but that would have been mean. I took the above quote as condescending and the stuff that outdoor writers rehash over and over and over. Perhaps it was not intended that way. I consider myself top be a pretty observent guy. I observed that when the water gets cold, there are fewer fish on the end of my line. None of the above means anything to the guy who steps in the water on saturday morning. Either the fish are there and biting or they are not. This debate could go on forever.

Don- In the immortal words of Todd Rundgren..."We gotta get you a woman" Both of you should sound like "wannabee be outdoor writers". Do you think I'm a stupid person??? The s@#t has gone over my waders. I'm outta here.

case in point... doesn't this translate to "fish the whole dam river".

I've never caught a 20" smallie in my life. I've never even seen anyone catch one. I've caught and measured 1 maybe two 19" fish. A good amount of 18s and lots of 16 and 17s. and if I never peel a 10" smallie off a twister tail again, it will be too soon. i know you can catch big ones in fall. You guys are a different breed than me. A lot more serious about this. Log book? Thermometer? Not me. Thats too much like work. For the average schmuck like me that gets out 5 or 6 times a year for a few outtings it gets tough this time of year. I fish one stretch of water on the Kank basically Davis Creek down to Area 7. I don't deviate from that stretch. reason being I know where to go and know the water like the back of my hand. And I just like being there. If it's a matter of fishing anywhere else, I'm probably going to go to a different body of water. In summer I can throw on a topwater and cast blindly and still catch fish. It so easy any idiot can do it. I like fishing live helgies because the fish get even stupider. The times I have caught fall fish I have found them to be stacked and those were out of a canoe. Float trips are something I no longer have time for. I can't remember the last time I floated the Kank. I can't remember the last time I fished more than half a day. Covering enough water in a short period by wading is tough. And the fish ain't exactly commiting suicide.Usually it's two or three hours at the most. I have to be believe there is no substitute for time on the water. So in a nutshell, summertime, warm water and stupid, aggresive smallies are more condusive to my style of fishing. Lastly, I'm serious about the shotgun thing. I've had pellets rain around me twice. No where near a duck blind. Lethal or not thats freaking scary. In the times I did float the Kank in Fall, it was even scarier, since you go by so many duck blinds.

I've always found fall fishing to be highly overated. The water gets too clear and the fish are way less aggressive because the water gets colder. And nothing makes a fishing trip like having shotgun pellets land near you. year after year I keep saying I'm going to start fishing for trout and salmon.