Rob G

Mark, you bring up some good points but, eventually all fish die and do decay within the water.   When I used to bowfish a lot, one night on the Tennessee River, I and my friend shot exactly 100 Asian Big head carp with the average fish weighing in easily at 20-25 lbs, and the largest at 42 lbs.  Do the math, that's 2500 lbs of fish that evening and when we started to haul them back up the ramp, the Kentucky DNR stopped us cold and told us that we must go right back out there and dump them (all dead by now) right back into the river.  We were not allowed to haul any of them out as they didn't want to take any chance that they could end up in an;y other waterway.  Other fishermen had dumped their catch on the far side bank and you could smell the stench  several hundred yards away.  

John, I know what you mean. I had a couple that I swore had inhaled the fly  but when I went to set the hook, I whiffed , nothing but air and so their mouths must have not have been fully closed on the fly.  Btw, what hook size are you tying those on ?

Oh Yeah !  "Da Bomber"  Well done !  Glad to hear things worked out for you but I need to know if you went out and started smashing walnuts ? Ha    So they wouldn't even look at your neat leaf flies ?  Curious fish.

I hope to get back after them if I get a chance but I'm not sure whether that will happen because I need the water to be really low and hopefully clear.  

Thanks Ed, it looks like walnut oil is good for what ails you.  It seems like it would be worth a try if Andy has seen their preference for walnut leaves,   Guess those grassies really are intelligent, having already figured out all health benefits of consuming walnut leaves/oil.

I finally got a chance to seek out those grassies again and they mostly disappeared from where they were holding before.  I only spotted a couple of solos here and there.  No chance of sight casting to them since the water was still a bit stained after the 2" of rain we received.  I did have one incident that has now occurred on at least 4 different fish, and that is, they move up and open their mouth 2-3" out of the water, right on the precipice of inhaling the fly, I mean it's on their lips, but then they back off slightly, close their mouth and .show no further interest.  They must have some olfactory or taste receptors just on the front of the mouth so they can move up to something, determine if it is real food (or black Hobby Lobby foam) without inhaling first.  Darn good adaptation.  I'm wondering if I could scent these bombers in something that might be attractive.  When I was a boy we would add garlic and onion salt to our Wheaties dough ball for common carp, also dad and I would soak our chicken livers in anise oil for our throw lines for catfish and turtle.  Wonder what these grass carp would find appealing that I could soak some foam bombers in?  Got any ideas.   Walnut leaves ? Ha   

very creative, after the cast does the hook normally ride down ?  

Mark, I'm not surprised about that Rebel craw being effective, my first 20" came on a Rebel Craw some 30+ years ago.  

John, I present to you the Cicada Bomber Ha, from your inspiration.  Hope to get a chance to try it out in the next few days.  Btw, I tied one in orange as well to represent that leaf.  We'll see if any of them pan out.

Mike,

I have not eaten grass carp but when I used to bowfish a lot, we often kept a big cooler with ice on the boat when there was a good chance that we might take one.  There is a local Chinese restaurant owner that LOVED it when we would bring him one or two of these after a day on the water.  He prepared them for his patrons and in return he would give us free lunch buffets.  It was a great deal for us but then we were able to transport the fish via the boat, not so easy now when I've waded back up the river a half mile or more.

Andy,

you bring up a very good point that I have not considered.  I released the couple that I landed, probably would have been better for the water and the nearby eagles and critters if I had not.  What's surprising to me is the number of large grassies that are present, since I don't ever remember seeing this many in the past.  Interestingly, I'm not seeing the numbers of gar that were present here, specifically the large long nose.   Maybe related, maybe not.  The water is about as low as it gets and I'm sure they're more concentrated than usual.

I'm not sure who is more hooked, this other grassie that I took today or me chasing these darn things.  This one also took "da Bomber" but I had another one on today that hit my big black bug, unfortunately he got off but not before breaking off the tip of my favorite smallie rod.  This super light weight and very high modulus MHX graphite is probably not the ideal rod when targeting these brutes.   The other thing is that I've got to switch over to one of my better reels for this game as the drag is really getting a work out during these 30 minute battles. 

Btw John, you were right, I sat crouched down on this rock watching this one grassy holding in the current who seemed focused on only orange leafs as they floated down the river.  He would move up and take it in for a second or two then expel it, and of course I had absolutely zero orange flies of any nature on me.  He had no interest in my black bugs or any other colored leaf.   Curious fish.   

Hey, I pulled a Johnnie G. today.  While smallie fishing, I came upon a bunch of grassies holding in some slack water and cast my stealth bomber their way, and low and behold, one moved over quickly and sucked it in.  This never happens to me and the one was my only taker.  Took quite a while to get that tanker in but I'm sure enjoying that Stealth B.  

Mike,

It’s true you’ve spouted the benefits of the stealth bomber fly for a long time, but up until a couple days ago, I never had much luck with that fly.  And for the life of me, I couldn’t figure out why because it has so many wonderful characteristics.  The water is presently very low and clear around here and there were several key stretches of the river that made for an excellent top water opportunity.  My usual favorites were doing just OK but then I decided to try the one Stealth Bomber fly that still resides in my fly box and it caught fire. I landed over a dozen smallies with it including the largest of the day, and for that matter, the largest of the year, a nice 19”er.  I like that in slower water, when you give it that first sharp tug or two, you actually get a bubble that rises to the top of the water, likely due to the air that becomes trapped in that foam hole.  It makes a more subtle pop that I appreciate and of course if you strip it hard, it dives slightly and gives that nice shake and bake motion, stop the retrieve and it floats back to the top which sometimes will elicit a strike.   So now I’m a believer and will fish it with more confidence in the future. 

Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

John, the head length in the Magnum is 35 ft for a 5 weight vs 33.5 for the Titan, only a 4% difference but the weight, is 150 grains vs. 185 grains, a 23% difference.  I can tell you which will have a greater impact on my fishing.    

So on one of my favorite smallie fly rods which I built some time back, I've been using either a Rio Clouser 6 wt. line or a Scientific Anglers Head Start 6 weight line.  Because both lines perform decently on that rod but will be in need of replacement soon.  I measured them on my grain scale and sure enough both come in about 175 grains for the first 30 feet of line or about a 1/2 weight higher than AFTMA 6 wt. standards.  Now my rod is advertised as a fast 5 wt. rod but you couldn't get that thing to load with 5 wt. line unless you had the whole spool aerialized, hence why I over line it with a 6 wt. line, actually a 6 1/2 wt. line. 

Bear with me here, so now I begin looking at "bass" lines that I might purchase and looked at a SA Mastery Titan line which I was told is the latest and greatest bass taper and lo and behold, it is weighted 2 full line weights higher than standard for each weight, soooo if I were to use a 6 weight for my rod as I've always done, I would be over lining by 3 line weights or in other words would be using an 8 wt. line on a 5 wt. rod.  That's crazy !  Now the very same company's Frequency Magnum line which they also advertise for throwing large streamers for bass is only over weighted by a 1/2 line weight above standard.  Line weight and fly rod weight designation has become silly, why have standards if no one is going to abide by them.  So no longer can you say, just over line your rod by one and you'll be happy.   Even for people that are more knowledgeable, you have to do your due diligence but to a novice, they would have no clue.   

OK, I feel so much better now, thank you for your patience and now back to our regularly scheduled programming.     

After reading thru several of his articles, I don't think I would enjoy it as he does, since he is willing to chuck very heavily weighted jigs (1/8 oz)  and streamers in order to make it work. I personally don't enjoy that type of casting all day and often need greater distances than what he achieves.  But he has some valid points and if someone enjoys it, I say go for it.

Thanks Phil for bring this to our (my) attention.  Had not seen this before.  Lots to read on that site.  

I already know not to crowd the eye of hook with materials but I do it all too often anyway .........and now you want me to leave even more space in front of the eye ?...........ha, little chance of that happening, as that would require skills and discipline.

The guy must be moonlighting because I'm pretty sure this fellow played in Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band if I remember correctly.

Now that's a BEAST !

8 hours ago, Mike G said:

Here's the link. You get 360 6-8-10 mm 3d hollowgraphic eyes for $14. That is less than 4 cents per eye. BP looks like twice as much.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B4S4S97/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Yea Mike, I only get 35-40 WTP eyes for $3.50 but in fairness, they are high quality and the discerning fish that I catch seem to approve.  Ha

Mark, I met Gary 10 years ago over at Indy and we bought for  our central Illinois fly tiers both sets of his cutters.  They work great and are a lot of fun.  We often have them at our fly tying gatherings for people to use. 

Maybe I should have posted this in the "Conservation forums"

6 hours ago, Mike G said:

 

Now I still have not solved the puzzle for gluing eyes...

Mike,

I use the pre sticky eyes that Bass Pro sells in the lure building supplies such as where spinner blades, beads, and lake trout/walleye rigging are sold.  Do NOT buy them in the fly tying materials area, they are much cheaper for the non-fly guys (of course).  Peel off an eye and lay it face down.  Now take your bodkin and lay it flat on the table where the point is midway across the eye, just below center.  Use Loc Tite super gel glue and place one tiny tiny dot in center.  Don't place a large drop, it takes so little to attach and too much will seep out under the eye and make a mess.  Now pick up the bodkin which the eye is temporarily attached to , and rotate the eye over face up, place it on your fly where desired,  and apply light pressure with finger, pencil eraser end, etc. and pull your bodkin out from underneath.  Voila, perfectly placed eye with no mess.  Again, the gel vs. regular super glue makes a huge difference because it stays where you put it and won't run.  Btw, the gel also takes just a second or two longer to set up on foam which gives you a moment longer to perfectly place your foam popper on the shank of the hook.  

Mark,

I like those.  Is that round cylinder foam cut at an angle in the back?  How is the foam mounted on the hook shank, is there a slit in the bottom?   What size and hook please?

OK, John, it's back in black and with rubber legs, a tuft of rabbit hair, antron fibers in the dubbed body, a little hackle and peacock herl antennae, there's a whole lotta shakin' going on.