Norm M

The signs are in bait shops in the Kankakee River Basin .

Don , My oldest is a heretic in that she prefers channel cats to smallies . How could a father go so wrong ? Oh well , if it strecthes my line in the morning it's all good .

When Phil speaks , I listen .

Thank you all very much . Progress is being made in the recovery but of of course as a parent it's never fast enough . If all goes well I'll wet a line a little tomorrow and hopefully relieve some of the stress .

Sorry I couldn't make it to the Oakwood today , I was looking forward to seeing a bunch of new folks and some I already know . Unfortunately , my oldest got hurt and is in the hospital , nothing life threatening it seems , but kinda scary . I spent the day with her and taking care of stuff for her . Thanks in advance for all thoughts and prayers . I will see you all in the future .

Jeff , Shoot there's some of us crazy enough to fish year round for them .

Tim , T'was a musky that commited the theft . I'm 2 for 4 on the critters down yonder . Got a pickerel one day with Phil , but don't remember which flow . I'll bow to your expertise on the bass ID . The ones that I thought was hybrids had kinda of a smallie look but somewhat of a toothpatch like a spot .

Maybe someone will hit the trifecta , smallie , spot and smallie/spot hybrid . Be on the look out for a toothy critter with an affinity for X-Raps .

Jeff , If you can make it to the outing at the Oakwood exit this Saturday , I'd be more than happy to answer any questions .

There is even a guy named D-- [hey who edited that out] who excels at catching turtles and clams .

You are only limited by your imagination and how much you are willing to tote on your back .

Mike , I don't think the walleyes have had much if any impact on the smallie population . While the numbers of 19-20 inch smallies is down this year that is something I have been expecting and predicting . Those are mostly old fish that are dying from natural causes due to old age in my opinion . My total numbers of smallies is about what it shoud be given that I have spent more time pursuing other species . My walleye numbers are the best they have ever been . I attribute that to a larger population of walleyes than in times past , more time fishing for them and above all else I know I'm a better fisherman than I was when the walleye population was at fishable size years ago . A bigger concern to me than interspecies competition is the continuing loss of habitat and degradation of existing habitat for many of the native species to the river . Northern Pike in particular in my favorite stretches have become almost non existant mostly due to the loss of spawning areas . We have been losing both walleye and smallie spawning areas ever since the increase in sand and silt over the K3 dam started 2 years ago . What is just as bad is the smothering of rocky areas that support the bottom of the food chain . When the bottom of the chain suffers it doesn't take long to bring down the top . Yes the river is changing, increased sedimentation , larger areas of weedgrowth ,more shoreline development , more subdivisions dumping lawn chemicals into the storm sewers, the quarry on Rock Creek , more water being used for irrigation , increase in numbers of species such as largemouth bass and gar in areas they were to quote a biologist "present but not in significant numbers ". I don't think it will become a largemouth river in my life that's left but it may in my son's lifetime . Tim , sorry for the hijack .

Lord willing and the crick don't rise .

Thanks for the response Tim , gives me more to ponder . Are you going to be at Oakwood this Saturday ?

Rattlebaits are also a nice option . A 4 or 5 inch thickwalled tube weightless on an EWG Gammie can be a nice option to cover the midportion of the water column .

I would have happy if that picture had edited out that horrible thing above the fish . I'm going to make a copy , cut that monstrous creature out and hang it on my door come Halloween . Not only will I get to keep all my own candy but I'll get a lot more from the bags tossed to the side as the tykes run screaming down the walk .

Just curious , where does the "man law" committe stand on passing up an opportunity to go fishing in favor of participating in the "horizontal boogey" ?

Very interesting idea that you can have different genetic groups of a species in the same flow . One of the selling points of the walleye stocking program on the Kankakee was that the fish would all come from the Kankakee/Iroquois rivers thus insuring that they would be native fish that were suited to the river . I would have to think that even though there may be different genetic groups of a species within the same flow that they all nonetheless be genetically programed to survive best in that particular flow . I do wonder what effects may come from mixing two or three genectically different groups even those from the same flow . Would hybrid vigor be possible from this pairing and could some of the trophy fish be a result of natural mixing at the confluence of two seperate genetic groups ? Another question in my mind is could one of the genetic groups expand thier range in that flow as the river ages which could possibly make changes that suit that group just a little better ? This gives me something else to ponder on those days when the smallies are a tad reluctant and I'm just not in the mode to switch species .

Don as the head of the Constabulary ??????? I can hear it now , Badges , we don't need no stinking badges .

Tim , As far as temperature goes it mentions that they had temps for only 3 years between December 1 and February 28[29] . They ranged from 0.0 C to 9.5 C with a mean of 1.03C . They did note that the winter that was the driest and the 4th coldest had CPUE for combined ages 1-3 fish well above the ten year mean of 10.4 fish/h for the following summer. They also noted the warmest and wettest winter had the second lowest combined catch of ages 1-3 smallmouth bass 4.77 fish/h the following summer . From the map accompaning the study it appears that tributaries were not included . I believe that the poor quality of the upstream fishery did contribute to the lower numbers in the study . As far as flushing out the river , it prolly helps with the leaf and algae buildup but I haven't seen any evidence that it reduces the rooted emergent vegetation that has been on the increase since the drought years . I wonder if it could not make the situation worse by flushing all the lawn chemicals out of the storm sewers and farm chemicals out of the fields and into the riverine environment . In fact , in may well help by providing an extra source of nutrients when the weeds are spread to new areas by the rising water . The combination of lower water during the seemingly more often occuring drought times that allow sunlight to penetrate to areas it may not have in the past plus extra nutrients in the system promote new areas of weedgrowth . I believe that the more new areas of weeds we have to slow the current flow will allow even more dumping of sediment over rocky areas which in turn gives the weeds new areas to colonize . I can tell you from personal observation over almost 4 decades that the sedimentation problem is getting worse every year. This will change not only the food chain by elimanating species dependent on the interspatial zone between the rocks but will also ultimately change the fishery by elimanating spawning habitat that current species need . Undoubtedly other species that will find the new conditions more to thier liking will thrive but it probably won't be to our liking as smallmouth anglers . Any one who has fished the river over the last 5 years or so has noted and hopefully come up with strategies to deal with the increase in the rooted emergent vegetation in many of the more productive stretches . I know that as someone who prefers crankbaits above any other lure it has forced me into changes in tactics in those areas . It seems to me from personal observation , not from anything scientific mind you , that this situation has led to the increase in species such as gar and largemouth bass in areas where the largemouth especially were a minimal presence and the gar at least were in lesser numbers than now . I hope I didn't take the thread too far off it's original intent .

Effects of Discharge Fluctuations on Survival of Smallmouth Bass in the Kankakee River by Robert D. Sallee , James Langbein, Harvey Brown , and Joseph Ferencak Illinois Dept of Conservation ABSTRACT Using 10 years of field surveys on the Kankakee River over a 12-year period [1975-1986], discharge and discharge fluctuations during spring, spawning , and winter were compared to smallmouth bass[Microptertus dolomieui] catch per unit of effort[CPUE] data in an effort to understand observed variation in CPUE of this species . July CPUE at 13 sites on the Kankakee River was compared to the standard deviation of winter discharge for each year . CPUE of age 1, 2, and 3 smallmouth bass was significantly inversely related to increased discharge variability during the preceeding winter[p<0.05]. For the Kankakee river , winter discharge conditions may be important in determining subsequent smallmouth bass abundance . Discharge fluctuations may affect smallmouth bass numbers by increasing current velocities in wintering microhabitats , flushing the fish and exposing them to potentially lethal conditions . Tim , if I interpret this abstract and study correctly I believe they think that high water in coldwater may cause younger fish to be more exposed to conditions such as thermal shock that may be fatal or flushing them from the system after they have entered the wintering micro habitat. Do you think that the highwater in warmer temps has a lesser effect on the younger fish in the possibile flushing from the system ? I would think that thermal shock may not be an issue this time of year . BTW the study is availible in " The First International Smallmouth Bass Symposium " put together by the American Fisheries Society Warmwater Streams Committee of the Southern Division Donald C. Jackson , Editor .

Prayers being offered up .

Even the fish was released back into the water instead of the cast iron it's to become food for the turtles and crayfish . I "love" those shots in garages , driveways , etc that say released .

Over the last 6 years I've probably got more 20 inch fish than most and the only ones I would say were over 5 lbs were the ones in excess of 21 inches and not even all of those . I've had one fish that weighed over 6 lbs on a De Liar scale while fishing rivers in my life . That was a prespawn female with full egg sack that was in excess of 23 inches . I don't even bother to carry a scale anymore , measure the length and let it go . I don't bother with the girth as it just adds to time out of the water . Over the years I've seen and heard way too many over generous weights and for that matter have seen too many over generous length estimates on fish that were not measured . You just learn to take it all with a grain of salt , sometimes a huge hunk of salt .

I'll never complain about a bikini hatch again .