Jonn Graham

Ok.........I remember where I took you now. It is not the same spot that is in the picture above.

I remember the trip to Powerton, but cannot seem to remember where I took you after Powerton. Old age I guess! Evidently we did not catch too many smallies or I would have remembered.

Looks familiar ............eh? Have you been sneaking down to central Illinois???

Thanks Don!

Since the float n fly season is definitely upon us, Warrior Jigs is going to run a short sale on our Papoose float n fly jigs.

Until Dec. 1st, if you are an ISA member, and you purchase a dozen Papoose float n fly jigs, you will receive 6 more free. Free jigs will be from available stock while your dozen can be any color combination you want.

Papoose costs are $2 per fly (jig)

If interested, contact me through my email address: grahamj@district87.org. These prices will expire at the end of the business day on Dec. 1.

Steve:

I have tried tapered leaders!!! I like them very much. I have watched my fly sink when tied on a tapered leader and I have seen my fly sink when on a straight mono leader........they are not the same. I can cast plenty far enough with the straight mono leader. I can see how the tapered leader would be the way to go on many different occassion. But when it comes to fishing subsurface, no one can debate the point that the fly is not going to sink the same as it would with a straight mono leader. If I am fishing deep current, I want my fly to get down quickly to where the fish are..........not drag due to the stiff butt section of the leader.

I am not against tapered leaders!! I just want people understand that there is no way in god's creation that you are going to convince me that fishing deep with a tapered leader is the way to go when compared with a straight mono leader!

In addition, did you not read Craig's post???? Craig has been doing this fly fishing thing to the max for many years. You can turn over a fly with a straight mono leader, as Craig said in his post. I myself being a rookie, can turn a fly with a straight mono leader. I am not an expert fly caster by any means, but I am practicing casting nearly every day. With more practice with the straight mono leader, I predict that i will be able to turn over a fly just as well without the tapered leader. I have another fly fishing friend that never, never uses a tapered leader and catches smallmouths, stripers, and such like they are going out of style.

This thread has gotten out of control. Partly my fault. But sometimes I and others have to stand up for something.

I don't even know why I even posted this reply..............I had said I was done. Bad day at work - one of my co workers just told me I need to go fishing and chill out. I am now done for sure..........I promise.

Ron:

I am done. We will have to agree to disagree. Fly fishermen sure have differing opinions on almost all topics. Very frustrating.

Ron:

Concerning your PS on one of your former replys, I know my flows! If you want to consistently catch fish, and larger fish, you have to learn to fish deep on occassions. The fish that are deep in my flows are NOT ALWAYS negative or neutral, but very catchable. To think that smallmouths in rivers, when deep, are neutral or negative is absurd!

Sorry to be so direct, but I have put in alot of days in my life chasing river smallies (more than most anglers could dream of), and in my experiences, be it with a fly rod or not, you better learn how to fish deeper on some days or you are going to go home fishless.

Ron:

We will have to agree to disagree. My point is when the fly is falling on a tapered leader, the fly will fall at a certain rate for a period of time, then when the initial fall due to the tapered, thin part is used up, the rest of the fly's descent will be slowed up due to the thicker part of the leader still having to be pulled under the surface.

There is no doubting that thicker line (the butt section of the leader) will not allow the fly to sink the same way as the thinner tippet section of the leader. I hope you are not debating that???? That has to do with weight, thickness, and the friction the butt section has on the surface of the water.

I do not doubt that you are a very accomplished fly fisherman. But there are other very accomplished fly anglers that I have talked with or read their writings who have the same view as I do. This is really not a fly fishing argument - this is a physics argument.

Here are the dates for our four winter meetings:

Friday Nov. 21 - Gander Mountain in Peoria 6:00

Friday Jan. 16 - Heyworth public Library 6:00 (Fly tying meeting..........bring your vise and favorite recipes)

Friday Feb. 20 - Gander Mountain in Peoria 6:00 (Set 2009 fishing outing dates)

Friday March 20 - Heyworth library 6:00

Normally, meetings last around 90 minutes or so. After that many of us go out to a local watering hole for food and drinks. I will try to schedule a speaker of some kind. The January meeting will be devoted to fly tying. A few of us fellow long-rodders will have our vises oiled and ready.

Hope to see as many ISA members as possible.

Ron:

I understand where you are coming from and I definitely don't want to start a firestorm, but it is only logical that a tapered leader with its stiff butt section is not going to sink as well as a straight mono or flouro leader. Because the sink will be inhibited by the stiff line, there is no way the fly can act the same as it would with a straight non tapered leader.

I understand that I am new to fly fishing and know very little, but this line issue really does not only involve fly fishing, but has to do with the fact that heavier line when spin fishing or bait casting will always have an effect on drop speed and action of a lure. This is not debateable.

NO problems on my end. I just did not get an article done in time for the November deadline. Will have an article in the Dec. issue.

Very cool. Unbelievable stuff.

Everytime I leave a huge mess of silicone on the floor or drip epoxy on the table, I blame you.

Thanks for the kind words concerning my article.

Jim:

Your kudos are much deserving. Although my wife is not a big fan of you

I knew I was not crazy! I knew I had read and heard that a tapered leader is not as beneficial as an untapered leader when fishing subsurface. Makes sense too. A tapered leader's stiff butt section has to impede the fall of a fly. Thanks Craig for providing that insight. Looks like I will need to carry tapered leaders and untapered leaders and switch them out depending on if I am fishing surface or subsurface.

Joe:

I am approaching 40 as well............how young do you all think I am?

Great advice guys................................thanks a bunch!!!!!!

Brian:"

I have the Clouser line on one of my rods - the 8 weight. On my other rods I have Rio Mainstream line because it came with the outfit. Great line but I wish it had the welded loop. I will look into the whipped thing you spoke of.

Steve:

My question is...............why can't you paddle and/or fish your local rivers in the winter????

Not planning to buy a "fast action" any time soon. Just wanted to know when and under what circustance is it time to consider a faster rod.

Right now I have three fly rods. All redington crosswater models with all of them being rated as Medium-fast. From all my research, the medium fast action is a great action for a beginner like me. Now the question becomes, when will I know when I am ready to upgrade to a "fast" action fly rod?

From my readings it sounds like a fast action rod can be a benefit in many instances, but can be tough to handle if one does not have the competency.

Any ideas?

You know what I figured out yesterday concerning loop-to-loop connections? I was connecting them improperly. Mine were not in the figure eight. No wonder they were breaking.

Ron:

You convinced me to give tapered leaders another chance.

We will be starting up our winter meetings this month. Our first meeting is Nov. 21st at Gander Mountain in Peoria. The meeting will begin at 6:00 PM and usually runs an hour or so. After the meeting we usually head over to an eating establishment for some food and drink. We plan to have meetings at Gander mountain in Nov. and Feb (both on the third Friday of the month) and the other two meetings will be held at the Heyworth library.

Stay tuned for more details and featured speakers.

Josh:

That is the exact same problems I have been having. Evidently my surgeon's loop is not that good.