Mark K

Heard this on NPR today:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112888785

Rule # 47 No fish shall be reported as a 5 pounder unless the scale is pulled down to at least 3 pounds. All experienced fisherman know that scales sold for fish weighing are notoriously inaccurate due to extreme variations in jostleing in autos and boats, plus temperature and humidity fluctuations. We must vigoursly enforce this rule to keep utmost integrity in our sport.

Scale?

Mark, Those hours ;ook like they are over 3 seasons. Still a lot of fishing hours logged.

 

If I'm reading this right, your stats showed some similar stats as we did in IL with our fishing log project. September has the highest catch rate for total numbers and the fewest amount of hours between 16"+ smallmouth.

Duh. My bad. More realistic- but still an amazing amount of hours.

No kidding!

I'm no mathmagagician, but if reading this right, 235 hours for the month of July! Thats an average of 7 1/2 hours a day!31% of the all the hours in the month of July. August not far behind.

I don't think I've fished that many hours in the last 5 years!

Both of you guys are way out of my league.

So far Max and I are in.

Doing a clean up solo, I don't know. You could launch a canoe or jonnboat upstream, then float down hitting the islands along the way.

This is the manner we did it on the Kank years ago.

Then you still have to have someone shuttle you back. also if you pull out ceratin stuff (like tires) you will need to arrange to get rid of them.

Sad about the hawk. Fisherman leave ugliness in their wake. I went to a bird rehab place in the Keys. Many, many of Egrets and seabirds in rehab.

tangled in disgarded line. It was depressing.

Nice job Mike.

I was walking around the lake getting a feel for the situation. I walked by a guy baitfishing and noticed he had a large turtle (actually a red ear slider, I think) lying on it's back. I asked what he was going to do to it. His reply was "He keeps biting my line". I told him I thought he should let it go or better yet, just give it to me. Actually, I have no idea what he was going to do to it, but he was cool about it and just gave it to me. Saving me from pulling a "turtle-jacking" on him. Grab the thing and run like Walter Payton. :-)

Anyway, after goin to a few of the Chicago Herp Society Shows, I learned that kids love critters.

So I brought it back and handled it for an hour or so while all the kids got a close up look. The turtle was pretty big and rather "cranky" so I couldn't let them touch it, but all the same, I think they got a kick out of it.

My family came by later and they had a fine time too.

Thanks again.

THERE IS ONLY ONE BUCKETHEAD!!!

The Ballad of Buckethead

Whos this guitar-playing sonsa bitch? , is a question common asked.

On his head a bucket of chicken bones, on his face a plaster mask.

Hes the bastard son of a preacher man, on the town he left a stain.

They made him live in a chicken house to try to and hide the shame.

He was born in a coop, raised in a cage. children fear him, critics rage.

Hes half alive, hes half dead. folks just call him buckethead.

Farmers would torment him as he snuggled with the hens.

Theyd hose him down with water, and steal his little friends.

Now late at night hed sneak off to the graveyard all alone,

And play a soapbox guitar to the faces made of stone.

Buckethead found his freedom at the age of 17,

When he burned the chicked house down with a quart of gasoline.

He did puppet shows on corners and bought a real guitar,

And with the help of colonel sanders, hes bound to be a star.

He was born in a coop, raised in a cage. children fear him, critics rage.

Hes half alive, hes half dead. folks just call him buckethead.

Thanks for the clarification regarding the site Mike and Don. In all honesty if my knowledge or presence is not wanted or warranted based upon having to be a member I will refrain from anymore posting until I have the ability to become a member of the ISA. As I said, I never intended to create any animosity or problems, just wanted my side of the story in the open. Thanks!!!

No hard feelings on this end.

and nice fish by the way.

Regarding size. I could be wrong but I don't believe they are refering to you at all. i did not read it in detail, nor will I. But you should re-read that.

Regarding revealing the spot. I'm not criticizing you for that. My criticism revolves around advertising a small stream, with...again, Almost all private property, VERY limited access. And doing so in the worst possible manner.

I got to admit, I'm using alot of restraint here, but in respect to all the anglers that paid their dues to hunt down that stream I'm not going to reveal any more details. I would LOVE to post details.

And not to mention ornery land owners and locals, some of whom are nice enough to do things to your vehicle. It doesn't sound like you know the history of that stream. Do you know it's a Laggerstatten site? Meaning at one point in attracted a LOT of people with shovels. they pissed off a lot of land owners.

While we don't have any scientific evidence to indicate that advertising a "NEAR RECORD" fish on two (if not more) of the biggest websites AND the freaking newspaper in the Chicagoland area, might....just might....attract a few people, there common sense might dictate otherwise.

Furthur more you have no real scientific evidence to the contrary, though you do cite a reliable scouce. Interesting article on that same site regarding a taste test sampling juvenile smallmouth from various small streams. I think the conclusion was that 12" bass out of rock creek are yummy. Not making that up folks!

Clearly an un-biased scource.

I have a spool of line. Cheap line for a cheap rod. I not sure of the line wt. I heard you can determine it by weight. I have accesss to a very accurate gram scale. Is there some way I can figure it out?

Could not agree more with Mark K. I have canoed and fished this waterway since 1977. My first thought though was that I could not believe that this stream had the forage base to support such a large fish. If you know this stream, it wasn't hard to figure out where he was fishing.

Mark O'Donnell

Thank you Mark. I'm sure more people agree but are tired of this subject. While we can split hairs on whats ethical or not, this is the far end of the spectrum.

I'm not a fanatic about the whole spot-river-shhhhh- thing, but there are times that one needs to use a little common sense and restraint....

Which I am going to exercise. The best thing for our stream is to let this die.

But outdoor writers should do their homework. Almost all private property, VERY limited access. VERY SAD on his part. Too much copy and paste these days.

Regarding "Near Record Ramblings"...

I'm really dissappointed with the Sun Times for advertising a huge fish caught out of a small stream.

Not only is it a small stream, but it's a small stream not 50 miles from a major metropolitan city with limited access and most of it's private property.

I used to canoe and fish this stream alot in the 90's. I stopped because I was paranoid about my car getting vandalized.

I took a ride there Thursday afternoon knowing nothing about this big fish and was shocked at the amount of garbage on the banks and pretty suprised to see three anglers on a thursday afternoon. talked to one guy fly fishing- he said on a weekend there will be seven cars parked there.

Mentioned to some freinds I went there. One pointed this article and a post on one of the big websites. It's shameless. A collassal level of irresponsibility. But you can excuse that because it's a fishing website...and some folks just don't know no better.

Actually it's inexcusable- but you can't expect any better.

Not bashing the author but he is a reporter for a major newspaper. He should know better.

Sure Mike.

I don't man to jump the gun on anyone who is going to post a formal report but I wanted to post some pics I took.

I had a very nice time. From my perspective, it was a really well organized event and I want to thank John personally for giving us the opportunity to do this. It went really fast and was not much work at all.

Here are some pics I snapped.

My son Max came with. We worked with Norm, his son Zach and a very nice chap named Brendon (hope I got that right). Max stayed on the shore and tossed plant plugs to us.

Volunteers take a break to smile for Paparazzi.

This is my attempt at an artsy-fartsy planting shot.

I could not stay for the post planting festivities, but on the way home I wanted to get some pics of some previously planted places. I'm pretty sure these are ones we planted because the area looked familiar. If we didn't, someone did. The whole shoreline was thick with plants. LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE!

Pretty cool eh?

Mark,

 

Your number 1 is a slick restatement of the argument from ignorance-a standard logical fallacy. We argue from ignorance to knowledge-normally quite impossible. We don't know where the lead goes so it must go in the water, right? Wrong! We still don't know where it goes. To clear up the mystery I looked in my tackle collection and found sinkers and jigs that I bought 40 years ago. A lot of guys like me just carry it along from season to season. Or do you dump your unused lead in the lake at the end of the fishing season.

 

Your number 2 is another gross overgeneralization. Lead is very easy to buy from Umqua, Cabelas, Fly Shops and plumbing suppliers to name a few. It is not highly regulated because, unless you eat it as children might, the dangers are very low. We keep it out of paint and toys. The computer you sit at now depends on lead solder to keep information flowing. The tires on your car are balanced with lead weights. Why are these things not hazardous to ducks? They are not the size and shape that ducks ingest.

 

Remember it is tiny bird shot that is the problem. Our fishing weights and jigs are not that size and freuently not that shape. That may be why there is no definitive study linking lead fishing gear to waterfowl deaths. This too is the key point of the article. Where is the evidence-habeas corpus?

 

PS I have no problem if you want to take a no-lead pledge. Give all your clousers and Jigs a decent burial.

I didn't restate anything, nor intend to be "slick". I posed a question, that still you haven't been able to answer. In fact, you say your self, Where does it go? we still don't know"

You mentioned all that lead in your tackle box. What will happen to it when you are done with it? Can you insure that it won't go into a landfill?

Everything you mentioned is regulated. You can't throw a computer monitor away and lead tire weights get recycled when you bring your tires in.

im not a fly fisherman but i do exclusively use lead. but if i can get lead weights for 1/10 of the price of tungsten then it's a no brainer. If you can bring the price of tungsten (and any of the other alternatives to lead) down or match the price of lead im all for it. I just went to cabelas and checked out a how much a pack of 100 lead bullet weights cost in 1/4 oz. $9.99. went to a website at random which sells 10 tungsten weights for the same price. now at tru-tungsten, for a 3 pack of plain colored bullet weights is $6.35. now a ban on lead in illinois would drive the cost of these "alternatives" up considerably. so yes, it would be a huge expense for me.

First off, where the hell do you lose so many sinkers? Nevermind- not important.

100 1/4 ounce sinkers, 25 ounces or 1.5 lbs of lead. Times how many anglers?

The EPA would BLEEP a golden apple if you were a chemical company and tried to discharge that much lead into a stream.

The more you guys go on about this, the more you are convincing me regulation in some way is in order. I was on the fence before you guys started. Actually against any kind of regulation, till numbers strted getting thrown around.

Where possible, I will buy and support alternatives. And kudos to the fly fishing industry, once again, being ahead of the game, by long ago making them available.

You and I will never see eye to eye. So really, this is a purposeless discussion. And you are welcome to the last word, cause quite frankly reading thsi stuff is more aggravation than it's worth.

Later.

Don't overgeneralize, Mike. That would make it hard to explain this article that ran on Fly Anglers on Line February 9, 2009. They are reputable spokesmen for the Fly Fishing community.

 

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bobboese/020909.php

 

Everyone should read the whole article. But I can give you the gist of it. Well intentioned folks are confusing hunting with fishing. When a hunter fires a shotgun the whole charge goes into the environment and cannot be retrieved. This is not the case with lead used by fishermen. Since it is attached to a line, we retrieve it. At the end of the day we go home with it. Also the size and shape of a lead sinker is frequently different from the tiny bird shot that waterfowl ingest. As a result there are no conclusive studies about the effects of fishing lead. Actually there are darn few studies. Well intentioned folks are piggybacking their argument against fishing lead on the studies about lead shot used for hunting. It is a poor fit as you can see. We might as well object to floridated toothpaste because Flourine is a toxic substance. Fact is that in toothpaste it is very beneficial. Then too, other folks used to say, "The only good indian is a dead indian." So while one may object to the lack of democratic decision making displayed in the proposed sinker ban, I object to the faulty logic displayed therein.

 

But, just read the article.

"Essentially, the argument goes, sinker manufacturers make that many pounds of sinkers each year so fishermen must be purchasing them to replace lost sinkers. Now if this were true it would mean that lead sinkers contribute a number not that far below what was supposedly contributed by lead shot."

But, he never really addresses what happens to all that lead. I never thought about it myself till I read this article. If manufacturers are selling "x" amount of lead, where does it all go? If not in the water then where?

I think he's got it wrong about tungsten also. To my knowledge, tungsten alloy is WAY denser than lead. So it's actually advantageous to use, fishing-wise.

Except for the expense ( a fly fisherman compalining about the cost of tackle?? Do I hear tiny violins?). There are some cool tungsten weights and jigs out there, I might add.

In all other walks of life, lead is regulated. It's nasty stuff- toxic, I believe the word that is thrown around. And where it's banned, everyone continues to fish. Frankly, I don't think it's a bad idea and I'm suprised it didn't happen sooner.

Not sure what a "banjo pluck" is, but as a kid, my uncle taught me to pop the lure (when using spinning gear) by opening the bail and securing the line with your index finger, just as if you were going to cast. Pull back as hard as you can to apply tension (which "loads the rod" , then release the line which makes the lure pop free. Not as easily to accomplish with casting gear, but I've done it to some extent.

This is a better method. If you use superline, snapping a jig out of the rocks repeatedly is a good way to toast a spinning reel. It's very hard on the clutch. Learned this the hard way.

I often wonder just how much do we tie for our eye and if often the fish couldn't care less.

It's interesting though that fish such as bluegill and shad have a spot that is thought to represent an eye. Why would nature go thru the trouble to put a "fake eye" on a fish didn't care.

Besides that. They look cool.

It was nice. You guys did a fine job.

I was under the impression St.Croix took Avids back regardless previously despite what the policy stated. They took one of my Avids back no questions asked. I have heard as much from others. Have you tried to return your smashed rods Mark?

Maybe an Avid Fly Rod. I don't think spinning and casting rods. Yes they have been pretty liberal with replacing for me too, so they might have. But these are flat out smashed in the butt section. I would have been embarrased to ask.

Regardless 50 bucks is perfectly fair.

Is it better than lifetime warranty broken for any reason return it with 20$ check we'll fix or replace? Doesn't seem like it. Seems like specific reasons to reject previous lifetime waranty if its been used.

 

More clear, yes.

I like the "Gold Star Plan" and the others, cause most of the time you break a rod, it's your fault.

Similar to Loomis' expediter service, which I used a couple of times now.

I'm about to return 2 St Croix rods that got smashed in baggage on a plane. I'd be out $340 bucks. I'm going to pay a $100 and get two brand spankin' new rods...with the option to...heh...heh...upgrade.

Prior to this I'd be out of luck. Actually, I'm not sure why I saved the rods, since they were pretty much graphite tooth picks.

You can't beat it. It's like an insurance policy witha $50 dollar deductable.

And the new St. Croix Avids are darn nice rods to boot. The quality is very nice now.

Jim-

That is totally cool! .

If only you could have met the "Great One" in person a few years ago. He is a pretty personable guy...in case you are interested. HA!

Just wondering...have you got the recent issue of Gray's Sporting Journal??? BWAAHHH...ha ha hah!

I have the In-Fisherman Smallmouth Book autographed by pretty much all the authors, including Larry Dahlberg...who commented " Oh, you got all the rascals here..."

Dan Sura, a guy you gotta love. Took up a whole page and signed it in giant letters: "SMALLIES RULE!!!"

Amen.

But those two issues, with those two hands upon them. Very cool.

I'm looking for some good panfish patterns. Links, pics recipes appreciated.