Mike G Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I have found 30# Omnisomething at Wally's. Even that is heavy. I can't imagine what 50# is like. Try starting with the 40# butt first. Going with what I have I will go with a 4-2-1 (30#-20#-12#) with 8 or 10# tippet and report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Mike, one article that I read, was that Lefty used 50 lb butt section only for large saltwater flies and normally 40 lb for freshwater applications. What I want to try is 56" of 40 lb, 28" of 30 lb, 14" of 20 lbs and finally 18-24" of my 8 lb tippet for a total of about 10 ft. Tim Holschlag in his book suggests only 3 sections for a total 9 ft leader, 3' butt section 25-30 lbs, 2nd section 3' 15 lbs and then 3 ft of 8lb tippet. Those I can find around here in a decent mono but not the 30 and 40 lb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Rob, that 50# butt material is probably easier to come by in saltwater country no doubt. The big fish off shore guides probably use it to floss their teeth. In the text that the link above leads to, Lefty lays heavy emphasis on using mono of the same make and model for each section of the leader. For example, the leader should be made not only of Berkley Trilene which has many variations. It should be made entirely of Trilene XL or entirely of Trilene XT. This assures that the relative flex between sections of the leader is consistant. Lefty is a stickler on these kinds of details. But, since he has only been a pro fly fisherman, writer, and guide for 60-64 years, what does he know? Till he was 21 (1947) he had not even caught a Smallmouth on a fly. Maybe we should excuse the delay since he was serving in Europe after the Normandy Invasion and during the occupation till he returned home and caught that first Smallmouth. Mo matter what # test the sections are made of, the "make- model" theory is worth attention IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul F Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Even at the risk of sounding ignorant I am going to ask this question... I was reading about furled leaders just a few days ago, And I honestly do not understand the point of them.... Now I am fairly new to fly fishing but I have been using a 9 foot sections of Flouro and tying loops into the ends of them and running that straight onto my fly line... Some people I have talked to told me that was pretty standard and some other people could not believe that I was not running a tapered leader with 4-6 feet of 4-6lb tippet. So ultimately, my question is: Would a furled leader replace a tapered leader then? And If one were to decide to use a furled leader (or a tapered for that matter) how would they go about adjoining the two sections(leader & tippet)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Paul, yea, the furled leader would replace the tapered leader. Many use a double surgeons knot to join the tippet to the leader but there are several other knots available and some will make a loop knot in both the end of the leader and the tippet and then go loop to loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 The one in the video uses a loop to loop connection on each end of the furled section...you could use a braided loop or a whipped loop on your fly line connection, and a perfection loop to attach your tippet..The furled leader replaces a tapered leader that youd normally use for surface flies, or shallow running streamers with a floating line...For deep stuff your usually better off with a long section of straight flourocarbon IMO. For mono leaders...I usually go with a 3pc leader plus tippet...make each section of the leader 1/2 as long as the previous section...I rarely measure...but around 4'-5' of 35lb, 2'-3' of 25'b, and 18" or so of 15lb, plus some 8-12lb is usually works pretty well for decent sized surface lures. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Rob, There may be the makings of a pretty good club project here--next meeting tie leaders instead of flies if the members are interested. The big problem is the initial cost. If you were going to make Lefty's 8' leader in Berkley's Big Game, mono Cabela's will sell you 1/4 lb bulk spools for about $10 per spool by the time you pay tax and shipping. You need 5 diffferent weights to observe the formula -- say 40#, 30#, 20#, 15#, 10#. So you invest $50. The limiting factor is the 370 yards on the 40# spool. All the rest have more line on them. For example the 1/4 pound bulk spool of 10# holds 1500 yards. Allowing 6" at each end of the but section for knots, you need 5' of 40# for the butt section. So you will get 222 five foot sections for the 40 # butt from the spool. The nice thing is that, when you are done, your cost is 23 cents per leader. And on some spools you will have a lot of line left over for the next round. What does a premade tapered leader cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 RIO tapered leaders that I often use come in around $4 ea. so quite the cost savings. I went ahead and ordered last night the 40, 30, 20 lb Trilene Big Game in the 1/4 lb spools from Jan's Netcraft. Cost after rebate and shipping will be a total of $24. I figure it's worth 5 pre-tapered leaders for our region members to see if we like the performance with the possibility of making hundreds of leaders. Should be fun building them and trying them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Even at the risk of sounding ignorant I am going to ask this question... So ultimately, my question is: Would a furled leader replace a tapered leader then? And If one were to decide to use a furled leader (or a tapered for that matter) how would they go about adjoining the two sections(leader & tippet)? Paul judging by your Steel Headin' report, I would not mess with the formula for the leaders you are using. Seriously, you are close to the answer on leaders because there are many answers depending on what you are doing. The tapered leader is preferred by a lot of fishermen and the furled leader is a variation on that. You can see we have been kicking around tying a specialized taper for bulky flies fished on 8-9 wt rods. As you have seen, with sinking flies and streamers there are different thoughts on whether to use tapered or level leaders. The same with fishing in weeds. The classic case for a short 3-4' level leader is when you fish a sinking line. It keeps the fly down. No one answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asherman Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I am usually pretty lazy with leaders. I often use Cabela's 15 pound tapered bass leaders, which work well and cost around $2.25 a piece. The knots on hand tied leaders tend to collect a lot of junk. When I tie my own leaders, I have found that saltwater leader material works very well for leader butt sections. The saltwater leader material is relatively stiff, is abrasion resistant, and is inexpensive. The larger spools also give the line less memory. I use the hand tied leaders when I am fishing big, bulky flies. Saltwater Leader Material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dodge Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Good info! Thanks to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Just a little followup here. Out of necessity this week, I made a 4-2-1 leader using 30#, 20#, and 12#. This gave me a 7-8 ft leader to which I added a 2 ft tippet of 10#. With a 9 wt bass taper line, it turned over some good sized bugs including a 5" Dahlbeerg Diver with a bunny tail. After a first trial I realized that the tippet goes fast. So I have added a tippet ring to the end of the 4-2-1. So what did anyone else come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronk Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 For guys having trouble turning over leaders an option for warm/saltwater is to use heavy furled butt sections to which tippet is added.Feathercraft's are 5' long with either a small o ring to prolong butt life or a small swivel to eliminate tippet twist.A better option would be improve your casting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Mike, I was told by some that once I started tying my own leaders that I wouldn't go back to "store-bought" tapered leaders and I think they were right! I've thrown a ton of big bass poppers and Crease flies over the past few months and love the way they turn over these big bugs. I tried several different designs and this is what I'm finding has worked well for me, your results may vary. Simple double surgeons knots work well and are easier to tie than blood knots on some of the mono. I was afraid that a couple of additional knots would dramatically increase the amount of junk that would attach itself to my line and that hasn't happened, even fishing moss filled ponds and lakes like tonight. The Berkley Big Game line in moss green makes for some really nice and inexpensive leaders while tying in a perfection loop makes for easy change outs. Still playing with a couple of leader formats but both work quite well for my bassin flies. 50% 30 lb, 25% 15 lb, 25% 8 lb Simple but effective 50% 40 lb, 25% 30 lb, 12.5% 20 lb, 8 lb tippet Slightly heavier, still undecided if needed Also, this past May for the bluegill, red ear, and crappie, made up some lighter leaders which also worked well: 20 lb, 10 lb, 4 lb and 25 lb, 12 lb, 6 lb Timothy and I plan on making up some furled leaders with his furled leader jig board but it seems difficult for me to believe that they will perform much better than these simple mono leaders which are so easy and cheap to make. Anyway, that's my take at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Rob, Thanks for sharing your information. The trick seems to be having the butt section amount to at least 1/2 of the leader. Since I have been having trouble finding 40# mono, I was glad to see that you think it may not be necessary. BTW the J Knot seems to work well for leaders. It seems to lie straighter than the Surgeon's. The video below shows the original knot for mono to mono connection. The diagram shows an additional weave (figure 4) for mono to braid connections. J Knot Video J Knot Diagram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Thanks for the info on the J knot, will definitely give it a try. Tim mentioned that he too thought that a surgeon's knot wouldn't be as straight but I really haven't noticed a significant difference than when I use blood knots. After I stretch them out, they all seem fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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