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Guest rich mc
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many patterns and instructions can be found at atlantic saltwater flyfishing , www.aswf.org i like the rabbit candy by bob popovic. rich

 

Thanks for that great link, Rich. We have a lot to learn from Saltwater Ties.

 

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40# Mono straights?

 

That's what it says on:

 

http://www.aswf.org/saltwater_flies_for_we...bob_rabbit.html

 

I assume this means Mason mono and the sort???

 

:huh:

 

 

 

 

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Speaking of heavy mono, just wondering how many make use of mono weed guards ? Thanks for your input

 

I tie a lot of patterns both with and without weedguards. I use non-weed guard patterns when I can get away with it or when the client doesn't want one. When I do tie weedguards, the type I use depends on the fly. I've used mono loops to keep up the tails or rubber trailer legs on some patterns and I've used the straight type, but the straight type require a harder/stiffer mono.

 

Joseph,

 

Go to Ray Schmidt Outfitters and look at his salmon snake pattern. It uses the straigh stiff mono to keep the trailer part of the fly up. The technique works well. I've tied it and used it. And for large trailers like that one, it's the ticket to foul free use.

 

There are a lot of weedguard types, some of which include:

 

1) Mono loop overwrapped with thread from start of bend along bend to back of hook. The other end is then anchored at the eye or just behind it.

 

2) Dual mono loop tied in "D" shape 45° to each side of the hook when viewed head on.

 

3) Single stiff 30-50# mono tied in at front directly in front of the hook point so that when bent it clears the hook point.

 

4) Dual stiff 30-50# stiff mono tied in at front 45° to each side of the hook when viewed head on but much shorter than the style in #3. The ends should be crimped to flatten them out allowing weeds and logs to slide off to each side or allow the fly to bounce over logs, etc.

 

5) Wire weed guard that anchors at eye and clips on the hook point.

 

6) Stiff mono weed guard similar to #5 created by either bending the mono or using a cauterizing tool to create the sharp bend like the wire.

 

FWIW

 

 

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Guest One More Cast

Thanks Mike.

 

Ray Schmidt's Salmon Snake (although you are right about the mono) is hardly worth tying. I have an old sock that would be just as effective.

 

$6.95 for a Salmon Fly??????

 

new_salmonsnake_feature_271.jpg

 

your mileage may vary,

 

Joseph

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Guest rich mc

i normally dont like them . i do find that a mono loop tied up the hook bend and then later tied by the eye works on the chennile worm . its more for keeping the worm tail from getting hung up than weeds. rich

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Thanks Mike.

 

Ray Schmidt's Salmon Snake (although you are right about the mono) is hardly worth tying. I have an old sock that would be just as effective.

 

$6.95 for a Salmon Fly??????

 

new_salmonsnake_feature_271.jpg

 

your mileage may vary,

 

Joseph

 

 

Old Sock? Are you talking about the Murdered Muppet? By the way, I modified the MM a bit by using a narrower strip of craft fur which thins it out a bit, lessens the bulk, and doesn't hold as much water between casts. It's an alternative for those who don't like the wet sock flies.

 

As for the Salmon Snake, I tied up that pattern for someone who wanted a few but would rather pay me than send away to Ray for them. By the time you add up all the materials for the fly it comes to about $3.00 per fly for the materials alone! I decided to try some myself and even did a few of them tied with smaller hooks etc. in black and white with red eyes. It acts like a jointed plug in the water and is deadly for smallies, LMB , and pike.

 

I find it more like fishing with a plug than a fly, but to each his own.

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i normally dont like them . i do find that a mono loop tied up the hook bend and then later tied by the eye works on the chennile worm . its more for keeping the worm tail from getting hung up than weeds. rich

 

Rich,

You may want to try the dual mono loop using a lighter mono (10-15#) like I do. It's just as effective but won't be rejected as quickly by the fish when they mouth it. It works fine with the finer mono and acts like a partial "cage" around the hook point. which will keep your worms from fouling.

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new_salmonsnake_feature_271.jpg

 

Joseph and others, I have to ask, Do you like to use those Petitjean heads on your minnow imitations???? I saw those used at a show one time and on a synthetic hair or craft hair minnow imitation, I thought it really had a neat action. I don't have a clue what it would be like in moving water or what it would be like to cast. I was considering tying a few of those to play with. Oh and thanks for all the info on the weed guards as I've only tried one or two of those that you mentioned.

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Guest One More Cast
new_salmonsnake_feature_271.jpg

 

Joseph and others, I have to ask, Do you like to use those Petitjean heads on your minnow imitations???? I saw those used at a show one time and on a synthetic hair or craft hair minnow imitation, I thought it really had a neat action. I don't have a clue what it would be like in moving water or what it would be like to cast. I was considering tying a few of those to play with. Oh and thanks for all the info on the weed guards as I've only tried one or two of those that you mentioned.

 

 

NO

 

Joseph

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Guest One More Cast

 

 

 

 

Although they do what they are designed to do, they add $1 to each fly, are butt-ugly and if you are looking for that kind of action, you may as well pull plugs.

 

Joseph

 

 

 

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Although they do what they are designed to do, they add $1 to each fly, are butt-ugly and if you are looking for that kind of action, you may as well pull plugs.

 

Joseph

 

 

Joseph,

 

If instead of the plastic cone you tied on some deer hair (or whatever) in a reverse (forward) cone, would that impart a similar action and be more aesthetic? Actually, it seems to me you would not need a cone, but just two forward "wings" that catch the water and impart a side-to-side action on the fly.

 

- Kevin

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Guest One More Cast
Are you talking about the Murdered Muppet? By the way, I modified the MM a bit by using a narrower strip of craft fur which thins it out a bit, lessens the bulk, and doesn't hold as much water between casts.

 

You may have modified it but you certainly did not make it a better fly....the bulk is what makes that fly work for Musky. That fly was designed to stay round and full.

 

 

I can understand with your advanced age that casting a real Murdered Muppet might be difficult for you and you would have to slim it down. Have you tried a chenielle worm, I hear it's easier to cast. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

Joseph

 

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Guest rich mc

i often asked others about the peti jean heads. of about a half dozen anglers they all reply "i purchases some but never tried them". most dont even know where they put them.

 

and the chennile worm does soak up water and can be a bitch to throw,especially the furled one . rich

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I've tried the petitjean heads and was severly dissappointed with the lack of action that they imparted to the fly and I tried all sizes of heads. Maybe you need a slim profile fly for them to work. But I did find a secondary use for them. Tie it on as usual then invert it so the cone encompasses the head of the fly. This acts as a slime guard to the head of the fly. This in conjuction with a double weed guard and you can swim a fly thru some nasty weeds and come out clean.

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You may have modified it but you certainly did not make it a better fly....the bulk is what makes that fly work for Musky. That fly was designed to stay round and full.

 

 

I can understand with your advanced age that casting a real Murdered Muppet might be difficult for you and you would have to slim it down. Have you tried a chenielle worm, I hear it's easier to cast. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

Joseph

 

I never said I made it better. I just modified it so one of my clients could toss it. He didn't like the wet sock feel, but liked the look and action.

 

I've cast bigger, bulkier, and heavier flies, so don't fret about my ability to cast the MM.

 

In the realm of the petitjean heads, I found that for the patterns I've tied using them, the head works better if you clip a notch at a 45° angle from the top center at a downward angle forward to about halfway down the cup. This creates a lip effect and gives more action.

 

As for using deer hair to create the cup, it does work and I've done it, but you need to use some CA to stiffen it and then Softex to reinforce the hairs. I made a mistake the first time I made one by tying the cone head too far forward and I couldn't easily get to the eye. So, I tied a mono loop into it for ease of tying it streamside. With the later ones, I learned to tie the head further back so I could access the eye more easily.

 

Another trick is to use a piece of stiff plastic for a lip. This trick has been around for a long time and I've most recently seen it used by Bill Sherer and Shane Stalcup. It's easy enough to create the lips from thick stiff clear packaging material and just bend them however you need once you cut them to shape.

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Guest One More Cast

 

This is an awesome (but still expensive) idea:

 

the head works better if you clip a notch at a 45° angle from the top center at a downward angle forward to about halfway down the cup. This creates a lip effect and gives more action.

 

Never thought I would ever read this :blink::lol:

 

I made a mistake

 

Joseph

 

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