Moving backward

[John Gillio]

http://www.tu.org/blog-posts/clean-water-rule-unraveled

We seem to be moving in a dangerous direction.

[Paul J Trybul]

Too many of our leaders are not outdoorsmen. They don't have a clue.

[rich mc]

this was a bad bill from the start . YES we do need to protect the water but it was very overreaching . rich mc

[Mark K]

Too many of our leaders are not outdoorsmen. They don't have a clue.

 

Nah. Wouldn't matter. They get their way paid by CEOs of mining companies. I better shut up or I'll get sued. :-)

[Mark K]

this was a bad bill from the start . YES we do need to protect the water but it was very overreaching . rich mc

If this is an opinion shared by ISA leadership?

[rich mc]

i am no longer an officer since last fall.. it is just my opinion from hearing horror stories about farmers being fined for bs reasons

partly it could be a way to run small farmers out of business to be grabbed by BIG business. tu only shows what they can bandstand on.

[Mark K]

i am no longer an officer since last fall.. it is just my opinion from hearing horror stories about farmers being fined for bs reasons

partly it could be a way to run small farmers out of business to be grabbed by BIG business. tu only shows what they can bandstand on.

 

Rich you are a nice guy, but frankly if the previous administration had anything to do with it, I would not expect you to be in support of it. I would also question the sources of your opinions. Not saying those are wrong, but that would be reasonable.

Question was how does the actual ISA leadership stand on this and why.

[Ed Buric]

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Question was how does the actual ISA leadership stand on this and why.

 

​While I can not and do not speak for any one else, this article pretty much sums up my feelings on this issue:

​http://www.iwla.org/conservation/water/national

[ronk]

i am no longer an officer since last fall.. it is just my opinion from hearing horror stories about farmers being fined for bs reasons

partly it could be a way to run small farmers out of business to be grabbed by BIG business. tu only shows what they can bandstand on.

[/quote

That cheap shot at an important environmental organization wasn't worthy of you Rich. As for farmers they're noted for complaining about their lot and for not seeing past their fence lines.For example it's disturbing to learn that all the sand problems in the Kankakee R basin was caused by farmers' either working their land or creating access roads right next to the river banks whereas leaving just a small strip of it along the banks untouched would've prevented the problem for all these year.I don't think that they didn't know but that they didn't(and don't) care.

[Mike Clifford]

Trump's revisions are absurd, but the Obama rule was ridiculous as well.

I'd like to see a more common sense approach to intermittent streams and the like, but Big Ag is a powerful machine. To answer your question, Mark....the "ISA leadership" doesn't take an official stand on national issues, as it isn't our position to affect national policy.

Trying to affect positive change on a local level is difficult enough, given our very limited resources.

[Mike Clifford]

Ron- let's not forget that minor issue of the steam shovels dredging the entire stretch in Indiana as THE major contributor of sand delivery over the state line since around 1910.

The Yellow and Iroquois basins have added to the mix substantially.....but ask anybody involved in the restoration process and they will tell you that restoring the meanders that were eliminated is the only true hope the Kankakee River will ever see. No amount of agricultural "best practices" is going to save this river.

[Mike G]

Generally I agree with John about the direction. I am worried because this was not "repeal and replace." There is no replacement for the order. Both the good and the bad of it are gone.

 

I can see the confusion about rich's opinion since this site still lists him as an officer along with listing Joz as the president.

 

In the current political climate, we may be lucky if "best agricultural practices" survive. They do burden big and small AG with obligations their third world competition does bear. For the sake of the Kankakee and other waters large and small, I hope the "best practices" band aid holds till we get the wagons turned around.

[Norm M]

As long as the Farm Bureau is one of the major powers in Indiana , there is about as much chance of restoring the meanders as there is of me waking up one morning rich , handsome and in my mid 20's .

[Mike Clifford]

As long as the Farm Bureau is one of the major powers in Indiana , there is about as much chance of restoring the meanders as there is of me waking up one morning rich , handsome and in my mid 20's .

So true.....but there just might be a refuge in our lifetime.

I mean a significant one.

It can happen against all odds...

[Mark K]

Trump's revisions are absurd, but the Obama rule was ridiculous as well.

I'd like to see a more common sense approach to intermittent streams and the like, but Big Ag is a powerful machine. To answer your question, Mark....the "ISA leadership" doesn't take an official stand on national issues, as it isn't our position to affect national policy.

Trying to affect positive change on a local level is difficult enough, given our very limited resources.

 

 

What was ridiculous about them?

[Mike Clifford]

I already stated that the interpretation of what is a wetland or navigable stream was vague and open to whatever the feds decide is in their best interests, not the interests of the American people.

"It's all about clean drinking water".

No.....there's much more to it they aren't telling you.

 

While I was not a fan of Obama on just about anything he did economically or socially for 8 years as President, this was a step in the right direction for our rivers and streams.

Our new President will screw it up and send us back to the way it was when SCOTUS took away federal protections of wetlands. The states don't have the means to manage regulations like this anyway.

At the end of the day, I don't trust the feds to get anything right even with the resources to make it happen.

Another President will come along and put protections back in place......yawn.

Read the last chapters of the Bible.

None of us are getting out of here alive in the end.

Neither is planet earth.

[ronk]

Mike

True about the earth.But the end should be caused by the sun not by sons of bitches.

[Mike Clifford]

So.....you haven't read the chapter.

It's rather "revealing".

That's alright.

Going to happen whether you know about it or not. Lol.

[Mark K]

So.....you haven't read the chapter.

It's rather "revealing".

That's alright.

Going to happen whether you know about it or not. Lol.

 

I already stated that the interpretation of what is a wetland or navigable stream was vague and open to whatever the feds decide is in their best interests, not the interests of the American people.

"It's all about clean drinking water".

No.....there's much more to it they aren't telling you.

 

 

Can you elaborate?

[Mark K]

Here is a descent video explaining both sides. Yeah, I am with TU on this one.

[Mike Clifford]

Great explanation from both sides.

The contractor has a good idea with the mapping.

[Mark K]

Great explanation from both sides.

The contractor has a good idea with the mapping.

 

That farmer's argument to me was pretty weak.

[Mike Clifford]

His point about needing to get permits for every drop of water was disputed by the EPA lady.

Whether what she said actually applies in the wording? No idea.

[Mark K]

His point about needing to get permits for every drop of water was disputed by the EPA lady.

Whether what she said actually applies in the wording? No idea.

 

According to this EPA blog it does.

https://blog.epa.gov/blog/2015/06/clean-water-rule-and-agriculture/

[Mike Clifford]

Now THAT is a comprehensive explanation.

Hopefully, the reversal doesn't last long.