gordon p Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 I was quite intrigued by this craft when I saw it at the Schaumburg show this spring. Sometime in May the gal and I drove to Paddle and Trail in Aurora as I was hot to trot on this but upon seeing it Lynette had her reservations. I would not be dissuaded put my money down and drove away with this boat. Now I am wondering if I should have listened to her. After a half dozen floats her is my review: The Good...............it is very stable as advertised, paddles and tracks well. The Mildly Annoying.......there is not a lot of internal space ( there is a storage well in the front ) so there is no good place to put your rods. This could be remedied by buying the rod holders......which I did not do. The Moderately Annoying......I bought their Kayak Paddle which they show in their promo video as attaching to a strap on the side of the boat when not paddling............BUT if, like me, you are often casting, paddling a bit, casting, re-positioning the canoe etc, etc then you need to be grabbing the paddle frequently. Attaching and re-attaching the paddle is not an option and the paddle does NOT fit inside the boat. In fact, if you lay it on the deck it has a tendency to roll out. The Very Annoying.....The seats mount to a platform which is on a track that allows you to position the seats anywhere along the inside length of the boat. This is a really cool idea. The seats I purchased are the top of line seats which are like regular 360 degree swiveling bass boat seats. When you lean back with your full weight on the seat ( I am 5' 10" and 185 lbs ) the seat bends WAAAAAAYYYY back to a ridiculous angle like 180 degrees ! Good for a nap but not for angling. The Thing That Annoys Me the Most.... Loading this thing on my roof rack is a pain the ass If I have to do it solo. With 2 people it is pretty easy. The Frontier 12 is 77 lbs. which is not outrageous but the problem is the weight seems to be distributed mostly in the middle of the boat. There are transport wheels that mount to a hole in the transom, again this is a cool design. This allows you to attach the wheels and rotate the boat 360 degrees around the mount. So, theoretically, you attach the wheels and turn the boat upside down and rest it on the rack, go to the back and slide it on the roof rack. However, trying to hold the boat upright is almost impossible as the center weight causes it to flip from side to side. If you remove the wheels and rest it on the stern you have the same problem as the stern is so small, not enough area for it to be a stable platform. Now I was able to get it on my car myself but it was like wrestling an alligator. Once again with 2 people this is not an issue. Don't know what I am going to to with this thing. I think the concept is good but it needs refinement. Perhaps the 10' model would be the way to go if you were mostly a solo paddler as it is 10 lbs lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Thanks for that brutally honest review. Annoyance was the refrain of your tune. I went to the Frontier website to see more on the boat. They really have a cool video and lots of extras to add to the price and weight of the boat. Bummer, they don't have "Antigravity Modules." Dilemma, you buy a boat for solo fishing, and you need a friend to help hoist it to the car roof. When you open a large can of worms, the only solution is a bigger can. Maybe Yakima has a magic gadget that will let you load that "Blanking" Tub with one finger. (By now you must have called it worse names.) There's still hope. BTW does that 75# include the weight of seats and other extras? The best way to loose weight fast is to use the scale at a kayak factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon p Posted August 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Mike, I actually bought the NuCanoe knowing I would be using it at least half the time with my girlfriend. Two people can fish out of this thing pretty easily and you can slide one of the seat platforms to the middle for solo fishing. I think the 77lbs is the weight without the seats which you have to remove anyway to put on the rack. I think design has merit but needs some refinement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikea Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Gordon the only way your going to get around the transport and loading issues is with a small utility trailer. Harbor freight, farm and fleet, craigs list.......you get the idea. You can use it for other yaks or canoes, I love mine , no more lifting over my head, worring about river crud dripping a ll over my truck. When I'm done fishing I drop my trailer with the yaks attatched and I'm done. Stan z has a much nicer rig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon p Posted August 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Mike, I suppose you are right, but I really want to be as light and quick as I can and the trailer is just one more piece of gear to haul and to need storage for. Then ya gotta add a hitch and wiring blah, blah. Then you gotta be cognizant of the trailer when yer drivin' and backing up with one has never been my forte. I get the ease of loading tho. No comments on my review ? You have similar seat issues ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikea Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Gordon here's the "nucanoe forum" it has a bunch of info on how to modify are boats. There is a couple seat base fix's available http://www.nucanoe.com/forum/outfitting/?no_redirect=true I don't really sit much in mine but I plan on buying an after market base http://www.uniqueyaks.com/Outfit_Frontier.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 Skin the cat for $699.99. And Ascend while you are at it. Bass Pro has this: http://www.basspro.com/Ascend-FS128T-SitOnTop-Angler-Kayak-Desert-Storm/product/12102505321115/?cm_sp=NAscdKayakAug2013_EMAIL&om_rid=AT4NUy&om_mid=_BSAWdXB80PVgSaI am not thinking of buying one since I spent my lifetime allowance on a Kevlar Canoe 10 years ago. But this one is nice too.I dreamed about how the world ended last night. A million years from now, aliens arrive on earth and it is covered three deep with rotomolded kayaks. They find a DVD made by the last human alive. She explains that the kayaks were so popular that everyone had to get one. Then the Chinese started making them. They were so cheap that everyone got a new one every time a new model came out. With population growth and all, the lakes, rivers, and oceans became choked with them and all fish died. The overflow covered the land and killed off all vegetation. Everyone starved. ...Them I woke up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 To help curb kayak paddle roll as you're fishing (especially frustrating on windy days), pull the paddle's rubber drip guards in and synch them tight against both sides of the kayak. That will help a lot and you'll still have it handy to dip once in a while to maintain position. Put the drip guards back near the blades when not fishing and doing more paddling. It's not perfect, but can help to ease some of the frustration and keep you focused on the fish. Wish all manufacturers would get a clue and notch each side of the boat so the paddle can lay still, directly in front of the user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikea Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 We need a paddle or boating forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon p Posted August 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Yes, Mike (A) we do........................and I stand a lot but you have to sit sometime. Mike G...............I not really interested in Kayak's......that's on of the reasons the NuCanoe seemed cool as it was a hybrid between the yak and a canoe. Nice dream.......as apocalyptic dreams go.......................an after dinner drink ? Eric, thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikea Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Gordon I will let you know how the new seat base is, I'm gonna order one up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikea Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 We need a paddle or boating forum.moderators? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon p Posted August 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 I sent my review here to NuCanoe and got a response from Blake Young who is "Director of Business Development" there. He addressed my concerns and I responded back. Here is the email, I have not heard back from Mr. Young. "Rods can be stored in the hull chamber via the Gear Vault, or in rod holders anywhere throughout the boat. Using a Crate Pack in the stern provides out-of-the-way storage for up to 3 rods." It is not a matter of "storage" Most guys like to have 2-3 rigged to be able to move between them easily. With 2 people in the boat that is 4-6 rods that need to be accessed at any moment. Once again, rod holders would help here, I did not buy them. I have used the hull chamber for transport. "If you add paddle grips to your paddles, they should be less likely to roll."OK, maybe, but this seems more like a design issue. Perhaps the paddle could be slightly shorter or have something the paddle can rest on. "It sounds like your seats are malfunctioning. On the Max 360 Seat, is the seat back part the swivels engaging the seat base properly, or it is "overlapping", causing the seat back to rotate back beyond the designed position?" I am not sure, it seems like the seat is snapping into place correctly. Uh, you do realize your own forums are discussing this issue, yes ?http://www.nucanoe.com/forum/outfitting/revised-seat-base-frontier/ "Using the transport cart, car-topping can be a one person task. This video provides a demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBI52m9akUQ. It is not "easy", but it can certainly be done without too much difficultly for most people." I have seen this video. This is NOT the Frontier 12, but a lighter boat. I have tried this exact method and either because of the weight or balance point it is impossible to hold the boat steady unless you are Superman or the Hulk. It is gonna tip to one side or the other. I was an avid weightlifter for ten years and tho those days are in my past I ain't a wimp. Post a video of an average person attempting this with the Frontier 12.I want to like this craft, address these issues and you'll have a winner. Right now I am considering selling mine.Cheers, Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 A Kevlar or carbon fiber model would clear away the weight issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikea Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 I hate having buyers remorse, its happened to myself many times. It most cases I've either fixed the issues I was having or bit the bullet and sold my equipment. Btw the wheels NC offers to move are boats are useless and I'm in full agreement about the seat base. I fixed the issue of moving my beast by purchasing a yak dolly from Dicks, works like a charm. Now the seat base, it peaves me I have to improve on NC's design flaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambennett Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 I've been talking to Tom and Jay down at Diablo Paddlesports. I think my next yak will be the Adios. Not exactly a yak, not exactly a paddleboard. http://www.diablopaddlesports.com/our_products -SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikea Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 I really dig that boat, price point is finally there and it is not made out of the ABS like the other yaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Sorry to hear that it has been kind of a bummer with the new boat Gordon. Yeah, the Diablo boats, etc. look nice too. It's all good as long as you use 'em and catch some fish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambennett Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 it is not made out of the ABS like the other yaks. Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim A Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Some of your complaints seem to not be specifically about this watercraft, but pertain to other kayaks as well. I'm assuming it's your first endeavor in kayaks. So, while I agree that the things you mentioned are annoying, it's perhaps inappropriate to pin them on this particular make & model. Eric is also right to point out that no kayak company yet has had the intuition to put notches somewhere forward of the paddler to store the paddle perpendicular to the boat. But another solution is to get a paddle leash, which allows you to not worry about what your paddle is doing while you fish/fight fish, etc. Many paddles float, so it's no big deal that the paddle is 2'-3' away from the boat on a leash. You also should consider the milkcrate/PVC vertical rod storage that so many kayak anglers have turned to. There's a reason it's so popular--it's cheap and it works. And as for your seat reclining, it sounds like that's a problem with those seats, not the boat. Maybe I'm wrong on that one. My experience has been with kayaks that do not have multiple seat options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 My Jackson Kayak Cuda had left and right notches to hold the paddle and keep it from rolling. Was a nice feature and made it quick and easy to swap the paddle for the rod. Surprised more manufacturers don't pickup on it. You're right on the paddle leash. I could use one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Use this stuff-pipe insulation-if your kayak has any kind of gunwale. Cut sections and snap them in place on the gunwales on either side of the craft. Notch the insulation or leave a gap between two pieces to keep the paddle from rolling. It can also be glued in place permanently. Personally gettin' impatient with this contamination of beer with tears. Seems kayak owners can't figure out nothing fer themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikea Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 My Jackson Kayak Cuda had left and right notches to hold the paddle and keep it from rolling. Was a nice feature and made it quick and easy to swap the paddle for the rod. Surprised more manufacturers don't pickup on it. You're right on the paddle leash. I could use one. The rod stagers where another great idea on the Jackson boats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikea Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Personally gettin' impatient with this contamination of beer with tears. Seems kayak owners can't figure out nothing fer themselves. Come on mike, is that necessary? You could stop reading the thread or find a canoe topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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