Jump to content

Recommended Posts

http://articles.mcal...fishing-anglers

 

That's a great find right there, Jude.

Exactly what we needed to see.

 

Cornstarch appears to be one option, from another link there.

I was scratching my head trying to figure out exactly how a container degrades...seeing as how it IS filled with dirt.

Wonder what the shelf life is on such a thing.

huh.gif

 

This page might work as a price comparison tool if we can find the cost of alternative bait containers:

http://www.livebaitv...g.com/cups.html

 

 

Oregon has proposed this rule as well:

http://arcweb.sos.st...cy_04_16_91.txt

 

New Hampshire:

http://www.gencourt....991/HB0216.html

 

Mass.

http://www.mass.gov/...ns/dmfnq497.htm

 

Mike be sure to let the Senator you've been talking with about these other bills. Maybe he knows some of the others at power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 74
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Here's what Sunchips claims; We dream of a world with less waste. That's why we've introduced a bag made from plants so it's fully compostable. Every 10 ½ oz. SunChips® package is designed to fully break down in just 14 weeks when placed in a hot, active compost bin or pile. If it takes a little longer, don't worry about it. Mother nature will get to it soon enough.

 

I don't think it's our job to find the container...it's out there already. Our priority is to do what we can to get people to use them. Obviously the cost increase would fall on the shoulders of the consumer.

 

I think if you were to work on legislation, it should be stated with parameters such that the container should be 100% capable of decomposing within a certain amount of time within regular environmental conditions.

 

Cornstarch is probably the best...because it is soluble in water it should degrade quite fast! Or the legislation can be more specific..."only cornstarch containers may be used for this industry".

 

Either way... the goal is 100% biodegradeable. And of course if people don't want to pay for the increase in cost...they can bring their own container to transfer them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

I don't think it's our job to find the container...it's out there already. Our priority is to do what we can to get people to use them. Obviously the cost increase would fall on the shoulders of the consumer.

 

I think if you were to work on legislation, it should be stated with parameters such that the container should be 100% capable of decomposing within a certain amount of time within regular environmental conditions.

 

Cornstarch is probably the best...because it is soluble in water it should degrade quite fast! Or the legislation can be more specific..."only cornstarch containers may be used for this industry".

 

Either way... the goal is 100% biodegradable. And of course if people don't want to pay for the increase in cost...they can bring their own container to transfer them.

That's a good point.

It likely isn't our job to find a suitable container, but we'll need to know comparable alternatives if we're going to sell the legislation bit.

As a matter of fact, we'll damn near need scientists and economists on our side before it's all said and done.

If other states aren't getting it done, there are reasons for it.

Before I compose a whole letter of determination (draft statement, etc), we're going to need to know which specific obstacles need to be overcome.

First and foremost being-

Would anglers support it?

That's not only the people in this room, that's state-wide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a good point.

It likely isn't our job to find a suitable container, but we'll need to know comparable alternatives if we're going to sell the legislation bit.

As a matter of fact, we'll damn near need scientists and economists on our side before it's all said and done.

If other states aren't getting it done, there are reasons for it.

Before I compose a whole letter of determination (draft statement, etc), we're going to need to know which specific obstacles need to be overcome.

First and foremost being-

Would anglers support it?

That's not only the people in this room, that's state-wide.

 

How do we do that? Petition of names...with addresses (I think we'd need addresses to ensure the names aren't fabricated)? How do we get a #'s count of support to present to the law-makers? To make it fair, how do we get a count of non-supporters? Because you're right, for this to happen, we'd need a significant number of people to support this. To me this is the difficult part. Finding comparable alternatives is the easy part...any increase in cost would be up to the consumer...on the other hand I'm certain no one wants to pay $5.00 for a bunch of worms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still think the cost could be off-set with grant money. If a distributor were to commit to doing this, I'm sure in this "Green" world we live in today there's money out there somewhere to

assist a company in making the change. Also, I would think the distributor that does make the change would see an increase in sales with the proper support from fishing groups/conservation groups

and also with the proper advertising. A distributor out there has to see the benefits (both $$$ wise and conservation wise) from doing this, wouldn't you think?

It shouldn't be a hard sell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for petitions- an utter waste of time.

Foolishness, in my opinion.

The only petitions truly worth doing, aren't really petitions at all. They are actually called ballot initiatives, those measures that actually get something (or someone, a candidate) put on a ballot. These measures have real teeth. All of the rest are data gathering, list-building measures, that are very often used to solicit funds later.

 

No respectable politician takes email or online versions seriously, and I have never needed one to engage people or facilitate change.

Building relationships over many years with our peers in conservation, brainstorming and making the case attractive to as many people (namely voters and constituents) as possible is how to get it done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for petitions- an utter waste of time.

Foolishness, in my opinion.

The only petitions truly worth doing, aren't really petitions at all. They are actually called ballot initiatives, those measures that actually get something (or someone, a candidate) put on a ballot. These measures have real teeth. All of the rest are data gathering, list-building measures, that are very often used to solicit funds later.

 

No respectable politician takes email or online versions seriously, and I have never needed one to engage people or facilitate change.

Building relationships over many years with our peers in conservation, brainstorming and making the case attractive to as many people (namely voters and constituents) as possible is how to get it done.

 

 

Ok...so then it's really a matter of talking to our representative, communicating the problem, showing them viable solutions or options, and then convincing them it's in the public's best interest with minimal cost to tax payers. In the school district I work at, when there is a bill the teacher's want to pass, there is an all call sent out to them to rally together and call their representatives. So the answer is "hoopla"....we need a lot of "hoopla". Maybe we can get Rich Mc. to design a fly, call it "Hoopla" and market it for awareness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok...so then it's really a matter of talking to our representative, communicating the problem, showing them viable solutions or options, and then convincing them it's in the public's best interest with minimal cost to tax payers. In the school district I work at, when there is a bill the teacher's want to pass, there is an all call sent out to them to rally together and call their representatives. So the answer is "hoopla"....we need a lot of "hoopla". Maybe we can get Rich Mc. to design a fly, call it "Hoopla" and market it for awareness.

 

....somewhat, but not necessarily.

Sometimes it simply involves sitting down with a legislator and professing a desire to work with them to resolve the problem at hand.

No emotional outcries, no foot-stomping.

Just a nice professional discussion like old friends sharing a meal.

 

To wit:

http://illinoissmall...indpost&p=32973

 

The result of such a discussion can often turn into something positive.

Many wrote to one such Senator expressing their concerns regarding the recent "lead ban" bill.

A cool-headed approach resulted in this response to all that email her:

Thanks for your e-mail and expressing your thoughts on SB1269.

 

Working with several fishing and outdoors organizations, I have decided to instead pursue a statewide lead sinker education program rather than the proposal outlined in the current bill.

 

SB1269 proposed to prohibit the sale and use of lead sinkers and jigs. I understand that many portions of the bill, as written, were objectionable to the fishing community. I believe that fishermen and outdoorsmen are some of the state's best environmentalists and most important advocates for the protection of natural resources.

 

This Bill was brought to me by constituents in my district who are concerned with the impact of lead on waterfowl. When lead sinkers and jigs are deposited on the floor of our rivers and lakes, waterfowl and the rest of this food chain, including, raptors, mammals, and humankind can be affected. More and more studies are illustrating their damaging consequences. A May 2007 report on its effects on birds from the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources found that lead poisoning was the cause of death for 16% of bald eagles from 2001 to 2007, one out of four trumpeter swans over the past two decades, and about 30% of loons in 2006.

 

While lead comes from many sources in addition to lead weights, it is because of these serious effects and the availability of cost-equivalent non-toxic alternatives that I have introduced this legislation. Other countries, including Great Britain and Canada, and states like New York and Maine have adopted similar legislation and seen positive results, and some of our most cherished national parks like Yellowstone have done the same.

 

I recently met with Mike Clifford and Don Rego from the Illinois Smallmouth Alliance (ISA). Mike Clifford is the Conservation Director of and on the Executive Board of ISA. Mr. Clifford and I discussed the interests of fishing groups and the intent of the legislation.

 

After meeting with Mr. Clifford, I have decided to pursue a statewide education program regarding lead weights as an alternative to the full ban. I look forward to working with the stakeholders involved and incorporating your interests in order to create a meaningful education program.

 

Below, please find the statements from Mike Clifford at the Illinois Smallmouth Alliance.

 

Sincerely,

Heather A. Steans

State Senator

7th District

The link I posted above was what she quoted to inquiries.

 

Shortly thereafter, the bill was revised dramatically....

 

http://illinoissmall...indpost&p=35643

 

I can't stress enough the importance of keeping the ISA brand of conservation on a professional level at all times. At no time do we (as a group) scream from the rooftops or suggest anyone does this or that unless we are willing to help them meet our common goals.

 

When issues like this one we are discussing come up, that sort of working relationship becomes priceless. You can't put a dollar amount on that for anything.

Many people over many years worked to develop this brand of professionalism, so it only stands to reason everyone that follows should maintain it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike, you're right. Keeping the ISA brand professional is important as is raising awareness. I looked back on the lead legislation and from what I gather it raised awareness. Personally, I was disappointed with the end result.

Everyone already knows lead is bad. I mean that. Everyone knows....it's no longer in paint, kids toys, and there is a ban on lead shot for hunting. In addition, many of our water ways are used for drinking water. There should have been no reason for this legislation Not to pass. Unfortunately, lead will continue to be used because it's cheap. We will eventually get the ban, the ban will be put in place once lead levels exceed what is environmentally safe for people. By then it's too late.

 

There is no harm in being a strong advocate for what you believe is right. When there is ignorance there is nothing you can do but continue to push the issue. Push, push, and push...until someone gets tired of hearing it. Someone will eventually listen and do the right thing. I also think that it's inevitable to lose your cool on occassion...many people don't take any responsibility. (People you correspond with will just need to understand that you care...and you care a lot.) ISA and other conservation groups exist to let our government and other businesses know that it is ther obligation to take responsibility for protecting our resources. We already have the status quo. They need to know the status quo isn't enough to protect what we have. They need to know it is also their responsibility for what we are losing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What you have to remember is that legislators and DNR personnel and park district and county board members usually also care a great deal. After getting involved with the IDNR as a member, then an officer I realized that many of them went into that profession because they loved hunting and fishing and the outdoors. They care as much or more about it than we do. Some of our park district boards and county boards are volunteer positions meaning people are giving time from families and friends to volunteer to help. It makes me cringe to see people yelling at meetings telling these volunteers what to do. That's why a lot of people don't volunteer because it can be a thankless job. Even if they are paid they just don't have the power to just make a change because some group demands it even if it is the right thing to do. The ISA has been the most successful smallmouth organization in the country and we got that way by working and cooperating with groups not demanding or fighting them. Legislators, IDNR, County FPD, paddling groups, watershed organizations, the media and others greatly respect not only what we do but how we do it.

 

With so many people and groups wanting stuff, the only way you become successful is by cooperating, compromising and working together to achieve an outcome that is positive for everyone. Not that that always happens but that's the goal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't mean to blame Mike for anything here. I understand the work that everyone does. My comments were intended to be directed toward those who had the final say in making the legislation. I think it stinks that you work so hard to earn a dollar but are only given a penny. It seems I may have been misunderstood. Jim, I agree with everything you addressed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I take no offense at anyone with differing opinions.

It is a part of communicating.

 

Read closely what the Senator stated, Jim B.

It was a constituent making the lead ban suggestion.

 

Lead is a problem. But fishing lead here has a very minimal effect on wildlife or people.

The amount anglers deposit in waterways has almost a nil effect on anything in IL.

The original intent of such a bill was started in states with native loon populations.

Their range isn't included here, and their migratory stopover is very, very brief.

Minnesota has loons smack in the middle of their range, with birds dying from ingesting it and couldn't get a lead bill passed.

I spent 6 months researching this issue with a completely open mind, and it just kept coming up that education would be the prudent approach here, given everything we know.

 

But I digress- that's way off topic, and I apologize for rambling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just got home from work and saw my 1 year old daughter...picked her up, hugged her, and gave her a kiss...she's why these issues are so important to me. I feel sad that the water we live around is too polluted for her to swim in. I'm sure many of you feel the same. Bait containers may be a small issue in the grand scheme of things, but they are big to me. Knowing that change takes time I hope green containers are the future. The lead research made sense, however, it still accumulates in the water over time here in Illinois. We really don't know what kind of lead levels the organisms in our water ways can tolerate. We'll keep at it. Moving forward is the only way to go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BassPro in Bolingbrook uses a distributor from Mn called DMF Bait Co.

 

They use a plastic container called Ecotainer. The reason they call it that is because it's made from recycled plastic.

 

From their site:

 

3/1/2010

 

> DMF Bait Co is packing in a new, 100% compostable "cup", with the lids still plastic.

 

By the year 2000, DMF was packaging and selling over 100 million worms annually. In the summer of that year, we also started selling an exciting new product. DMF had found a way to turn a live, brown night crawler green. This became another item we are able to offer our customers, along with other seasonal and specialty bait such as; wax worms, meal worms, pan fish/trout worms, crickets, and assorted frozen baits.

 

 

Who do you sell to?

Participating stores in the following chains:

Wal-Mart, Meijer, Mills Fleet Farm, ACE, Blains Farm and Fleet, Bass Pro Shops, Casey’s General, Dicks Sporting Goods, Discount Drug Mart, HWI Do it Best, Dunham’s, Kmart, MC Sports, Pamida, True Value, Wheatbelt, and more.

Do you only supply chains?

No. We service hundreds of independent C-stores all over the US.

 

 

If there is a bigger supplier, I'd be surprised.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The N.C.Bait guy got back to me and he uses compostable as well. That sounds better than the usual plastic and styrofoam, but my guess is that "compostable" is not the same as biodegradable. I'll bet they need to actually be contained in a composting atmosphere in order to break down. Wedged in a rip rap bank, they may break down faster than the regular stuff, but I'll bet it would be measured in years instead of weeks like biodegradable. With that many retailers, I'll bet a lot of what we see now is "compostable". I was confused at first, but I'm blaming that on Mike.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just ask your wives, they'll all let you know you are to blame. Except me , I got more teflon than my cousin the former Prez Ronny Rayguns ever had.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys im not that old but I do remember fishing with Grandpa and him having bought a bio degradable brown worm container like the picture that Mike put up, looks like a gardening peat moss container.

 

They probably got to expensive to manufacture compared to plastic so the retailers went cheap to put more dollars in the pocket.

 

Grandpa would dip the whole container bottom in the lake to keep the worms fresh all day, container would soak up the water just a little.

 

And Yes we brought them home for grandma to start her spring seeds in!! There was once such a thing!

 

Even a mulched up cardboard pressed composite would break down and have very little effect compared to plastic

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's a product that breaks down in 180 days...

 

http://www.alibaba.com/product/keymorenterprise-10933062-10683221/productdetail.html

 

Here's another product: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/238628789/corn_starch_container_240ml_.html

 

 

Here's another:

http://www.trellisearth.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

 

 

And another:

http://lepton.marz.com/ncga/comm_dev_center/product_detail.asp?product=Packaging+materials

 

The containers are out there...the technology is out there...

 

We just need to get bait distributers to use them. How do we do that?

post-211-127204426479_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We just need to get bait distributers to use them. How do we do that?

If legislation was passed prohibiting the sale of non-biodegradable bait containers, suppliers would certainly find the most profitable means available to them.

 

However, having the information you posted at our fingertips is really valuable if there was to be backlash from the bait industry in getting such a bill passed.

 

As we progress in our research on this, can you do some legwork on this when you have time, Jim?

 

What we need to know is IF such legislation has been successful anywhere in the country previously (it has been proposed, as we can see from this thread and various Google searches).

So what we would need in moving forward are the facts surrounding a successful campaign, as well as the reasons it was not able to pass in many other instances.

 

If you have your phone charged up good, please feel free to start grinding for information.

Just initiate a conversation that you have several interested parties looking to get this done in the Midwest and could use any helpful information they may be able to provide.

 

With that, who knows what we can accomplish....

 

Get me what you can find and I'll pass it on to our Senator and staff working on this.

 

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds good.

 

I'll forward what I find out. I'll put together what I can...I'll give myself a deadline of 3-4 weeks to get it to you.

 

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...