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Slow Day Tactics


Terry Dodge

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Ron,

 

"Several points:1) You say you don't need a 9wt for smb.Why than do you use it? 2)Craig got the slam because he's a very good flyfisherman which doesn't mean he's infallible in all his ffing beliefs.3)In referencing that In Fisherman statement you're making the same mistake Craig does by applying spin/baitcasting applications to ffing.The In Fisherman guy likely doesn't flyfish & I'm sure he wasn't speaking to flyfishing or suggesting that flyfishermen should be fishing 6" flies for lmb let alone smb.4)I was afraid you would take constructive criticism meant to make you a better flyfisherman as a personal attack."

 

1. You realy don't know me. So let's begin with my motto. "I do not want to catch a fish that feels like a whale; I want to catch a whale." This says I am done with the romance of light gear casting, spinning, or fly though I thought it was cool for many years. I realize that the 9 is perhaps the equivalent of a flipping stick; however, I think the flipping stick is a darn good tool. I give up some of the sport of playing smaller fish so I am ready for the toad. A guide once told us,"Keep reeling them in. You can play with the fish when we get them in the boat." That is a good tip. 50 years ago we wanted to play the fish on light gear. Now we know it is best to get them in, get them off the hook, and get them back in the water ASAP. Less stress, better survival with heavier gear. Bass are tough but not immortal.

 

2-4. Re-examine the assumptions you make in these statements. 2.Craig is wrong? 3.You are sure In-Fisherman information does not apply to fly fishing? (Tom McNally recommended his 4-8" Magnums for bass 20-30 years ago.) 4.You can't make me a "better" fly fisherman if I do not let you, can you?

 

IMHO, one size does not fit all. There's gonna be a day when a #14 Adams is required to hook the toad. Winter fishing with float'n fly tells us there is a time for 1.5" jigs. However, our experienced guides and anglers are telling us that there are other times when we are missing something by not going really big.

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Ron,

 

"Several points:1) You say you don't need a 9wt for smb.Why than do you use it? 2)Craig got the slam because he's a very good flyfisherman which doesn't mean he's infallible in all his ffing beliefs.3)In referencing that In Fisherman statement you're making the same mistake Craig does by applying spin/baitcasting applications to ffing.The In Fisherman guy likely doesn't flyfish & I'm sure he wasn't speaking to flyfishing or suggesting that flyfishermen should be fishing 6" flies for lmb let alone smb.4)I was afraid you would take constructive criticism meant to make you a better flyfisherman as a personal attack."

 

1. You realy don't know me. So let's begin with my motto. "I do not want to catch a fish that feels like a whale; I want to catch a whale." This says I am done with the romance of light gear casting, spinning, or fly though I thought it was cool for many years. I realize that the 9 is perhaps the equivalent of a flipping stick; however, I think the flipping stick is a darn good tool. I give up some of the sport of playing smaller fish so I am ready for the toad. A guide once told us,"Keep reeling them in. You can play with the fish when we get them in the boat." That is a good tip. 50 years ago we wanted to play the fish on light gear. Now we know it is best to get them in, get them off the hook, and get them back in the water ASAP. Less stress, better survival with heavier gear. Bass are tough but not immortal.

 

2-4. Re-examine the assumptions you make in these statements. 2.Craig is wrong? 3.You are sure In-Fisherman information does not apply to fly fishing? (Tom McNally recommended his 4-8" Magnums for bass 20-30 years ago.) 4.You can't make me a "better" fly fisherman if I do not let you, can you?

 

IMHO, one size does not fit all. There's gonna be a day when a #14 Adams is required to hook the toad. Winter fishing with float'n fly tells us there is a time for 1.5" jigs. However, our experienced guides and anglers are telling us that there are other times when we are missing something by not going really big.

Mike

Point 1:By all means use your 9wt self described flipping stick if it makes you happy but don't delude yourself into thinking that a properly played fish isn't safely landed on lighter tackle.Else how do you explain that big as well as small trout which are more "delicate" than members of the sunfish family are routinely caught& released to fight again another day not only on lighter tackle but with lighter tippets as well preventing their being horsed in.

Point2: Yes in my opinion Craig is wrong in this instance just as in his opinion I am.

Point 3: Please don't put words in my mouth.I did not say that In Fisherman info does not apply to flyfishing in general.Much of it does.Some doesn't.On the subject of fly size I stand by what I said about their article & I invite anyone to show me where using 6"+ flies is advocated as the preferred norm for big bass in any flyfishing publication.

Point4:'Nuff said.

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Point 1:By all means use your 9wt self described flipping stick if it makes you happy but don't delude yourself into thinking that a properly played fish isn't safely landed on lighter tackle.Else how do you explain that big as well as small trout which are more "delicate" than members of the sunfish family are routinely caught& released to fight again another day not only on lighter tackle but with lighter tippets as well preventing their being horsed in.

 

I recently read a snippet in American Angler referencing a study performed on the relationship between trout mortality, length of playing time, handling (time out of the water) and even factored in water temperature. The chart presented was simple; I'm certain there are more details, but essentially it showed the trout benefited from less playing time.

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I saw that one. In the same article, it said that the trout benefited greatly by not being hooked at all. Safest bet is to simply observe the fish from the bank of the stream. Bonus points for smoking a pipe and twisting your mustache while doing so.

 

;)

Just as there are most anywhere there are extremist peta types in fishing.In trout fishing they propose that fishing should be done with hookless flies, the real sport being fooling a selective wild trout into taking the fly not the subsequent catching.

The idea of catch & release fishing was born among trout fishermen on the heels of the great Lee Wulff's assertion that "a trout is too valuable a resource to be caught only once." That seminal idea would've died a quick death if the studies showed that after being released a significant # ultimately went belly up. In the 40 or so years since the fact that wild trout continue to flourish in our country's great trout streams even in the face of much greater fishing pressure in the years following The Movie is proof that they do not.

While there are a lot of the types among flyfishermen(some of whom are poseurs)there are also alot of hardcore types cosistently in need of a shave who've turned away from such banal things like their professions upon deciding that their lives have only one purpose,to catch fish.

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I've caught triple digit numbers of 20 inch plus smallies in my life, many of them in cold water. Without going into detail on how the numbers break down on different sized lures, I can safely say bigger is better even in coldwater.

 

In winter I throw crankbaits that have diving bills that are about as long as the so called typical size crankbait most use for smallies.

 

I don't believe in big fat dumb slow eat me for no reason.

 

Yes you can catch bigger fish on smaller lures but in my experience the odds be with the guy fishing bigger stuff.

 

In the long run you should fish with what makes you happy be it a bamboo cane pole, black thread and worms in a Folgers can or a $1,000 rod-reel-line combo of your choice.

 

Peace.

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I've caught triple digit numbers of 20 inch plus smallies in my life, many of them in cold water. Without going into detail on how the numbers break down on different sized lures, I can safely say bigger is better even in coldwater.

 

In winter I throw crankbaits that have diving bills that are about as long as the so called typical size crankbait most use for smallies.

 

I don't believe in big fat dumb slow eat me for no reason.

 

Yes you can catch bigger fish on smaller lures but in my experience the odds be with the guy fishing bigger stuff.

 

In the long run you should fish with what makes you happy be it a bamboo cane pole, black thread and worms in a Folgers can or a $1,000 rod-reel-line combo of your choice.

 

Eric got it right, it's not about competition between us. It took me a while to learn that lesson but once I did fishing became a lot more fun again. Peace.

Spinguys need to appreciate that while there's virtually no difference in the castability of different size lures there's a big difference when it comes to flies.There are a lot of different considerations determining success for big fish.Within known limits the size of the lure/fly ranks near if not at the bottom of that list.As a FLYFISHERMAN I'm not willing to accept the added casting difficulty of oversize flies & the oversize(for smb) rods needed to cast them for at most the marginal advantage if any they might have for big smb.In the long run using them will in fact not only reduce the #s of smaller bass caught but big ones as well simply because the less pleasureable/more fatiguing casting difficulty will result in putting in fewer hours on each outting & fewer outtings altogether.Quitting after 3hrs instead of 4 reduces your chances by 25%!.When it comes to FLYFISHING mindlessly repeating that old mantra "big lures/flies=big fish" reminds me of Cool Hand Luke's Strother Martin uttering the unforgettable "What we have here is failure to communicate."

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Does it comes down to skill-levels?

Is it more skillful to catch a 20+ inch smallie on

a 5 wt. compared to an 8 wt.?

If a person can constantly catch big smallies tossing big flies

on an 8 wt. then as fly fisherman, shouldn't the goal be to

fool the same big fish with smaller flies and lighter gear?

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Does it comes down to skill-levels?

Is it more skillful to catch a 20+ inch smallie on

a 5 wt. compared to an 8 wt.?

If a person can constantly catch big smallies tossing big flies

on an 8 wt. then as fly fisherman, shouldn't the goal be to

fool the same big fish with smaller flies and lighter gear?

 

Whatever you enjoy. That's for you to decide.

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Does it comes down to skill-levels?

Is it more skillful to catch a 20+ inch smallie on

a 5 wt. compared to an 8 wt.?

If a person can constantly catch big smallies tossing big flies

on an 8 wt. then as fly fisherman, shouldn't the goal be to

fool the same big fish with smaller flies and lighter gear?

 

Tell me Terry, do you eat 10 times a day or 3? Why expect large smallmouth to do the same?

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Tell me Terry, do you eat 10 times a day or 3? Why expect large smallmouth to do the same?

BT,

 

Quote me on this,"In a large book on trout fishing, there is a chapter on using bass flies for trout. In a large book on bass fishing, there is a chapter on using trout flies for bass." You heard it here first.

 

Moral: Be prepared for all contingencies; but respect the odds. Translated into spinning terms for bass, lean towards the 5" hula grub; but have a #0 Mepps or 1/8 oz PM just in case. In fly terms for bass, I think this has been covered already.

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I'm not even sure what this conversation is about any longer, but will pose a question.

 

Assuming bass are feeding on those 10" Hogsuckers that BT showed us, what is a fly fisherman using to target these fish?

 

You aren't going to tie on one of these 9" specimens (64.95 ea.):

goldshinerlure.jpg

 

Of course, anyone that knows me is familiar with this little gem:

 

<object width="340" height="285"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="340" height="285"></embed></object>

 

 

Sooooo.....

When I do finally cross over and really want to get into some beastly bass........

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I really hate to get back in this but I have to try to clearify it again. Any reasonable person please chime in. I'm not asking if you enjoy throwing big flies or not, it's about that the technique of bigger baits for bigger fish works. Yes it works, no it doesn't - no matter if you do it or enjoy it. It's "doing what it takes" to catch more big fish. I use an eight weight rod as my standard so I have no problem with bigger stuff. If you routinely use six or less an eight may feel heavy to YOU. If I knew throwing half a chicken would get me a five+ smallie and I needed a ten weight, I'd do it. But then I got a ten wt helios and it weighs the same as a six weight.

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I'm not even sure what this conversation is about any longer, but will pose a question.

 

Assuming bass are feeding on those 10" Hogsuckers that BT showed us, what is a fly fisherman using to target these fish?

 

You aren't going to tie on one of these 9" specimens (64.95 ea.):

goldshinerlure.jpg

 

Of course, anyone that knows me is familiar with this little gem:

 

<object width="340" height="285"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="340" height="285"></embed></object>

 

 

Sooooo.....

When I do finally cross over and really want to get into some beastly bass........

 

Mike,

 

Badger.jpg

 

When I saw your question this Badger Magnum popped into mind though it is only 1/2 the size of the sucker that the hypothetical fish are dialed in on. But there's more. Though I could run off to Muskies are Us and get a 10" fly, there's no guarantee it would work. Buck sez,"Depth, speed, size, color, action." First my fly has to get to the proper depth and move at the right speed. Fulfilling the other requirements of the formula like size comes next. So I sling the biggest thing that fills the bill on depth and speed and gets close on color and action.

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You guys had me reading the life story of Kreh over the weekend after seeing his name somewhere in this thread.

 

Fascinating stuff.

 

His books would probably be great donations for the Blowout. I haven't read any yet (shame on me).

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I had a nice chat with a very good fly fisherman I know who fishes the same river as me. He routinely uses an 8WT rod and large flys and does very well. He told me that fishing that size rod and flys is not more difficult it's just different than a 6WT and smaller flies. He believes that his success has improved markedly in fact since he made the switch.

 

I'm inclined to go with him and Craig on the 8WT rods and the difficulty factor.

 

Like I said before though use what makes you happy, the only guy you have to please is yourself.

 

Proper depth and speed control are always the most important factors so use the gear/lures that enable you to do that, the rest is window dressing.

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