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State of the Fox River: Summary of Fish Sampling Efforts


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Re measuring a fish what's to know?Just hold it vertically by the lower lip where you than put one end of the tape and the other end at the tip of its tail.

 

Doesn't really work.

 

Mouth should be completely shut, tail pinched, fish laid flat on top the measuring device. You get extra length from an open mouth and perspective holding it up to a tape. Easy enough to lay on top of a marked off spinning rod.

 

Smallies are like people. All different shapes. Sometimes the tail pinch helps, other times shutting the mouth kills ya.

 

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NO it doesn't, stay away.

 

I hope to be visiting there soon. If I do fish it I doubt I'll even name the river I'm fishing. I certainly won't name an access spot or area that I'm catching fish for that would be just plain foolish.

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I hope to be visiting there soon. If I do fish it I doubt I'll even name the river I'm fishing. I certainly won't name an access spot or area that I'm catching fish for that would be just plain foolish.

 

 

 

If you do come down, let me know and we can do some fishing.

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I hope to be visiting there soon. If I do fish it I doubt I'll even name the river I'm fishing. I certainly won't name an access spot or area that I'm catching fish for that would be just plain foolish.

Well said Don.That's as true if not more so in our heavily populated region.

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Doesn't really work.

 

Mouth should be completely shut, tail pinched, fish laid flat on top the measuring device. You get extra length from an open mouth and perspective holding it up to a tape. Easy enough to lay on top of a marked off spinning rod.

 

Smallies are like people. All different shapes. Sometimes the tail pinch helps, other times shutting the mouth kills ya.

For "everyday measuring" where eeking out the last fraction of an inch is unimportant (as opposed to measuring a possible record breaker)the vertical method is sufficient and doesn't risk harming the fish by laying it down which might remove some of its protective slime and definitely would if it started flopping around.

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Could not agree more with Mark K. I have canoed and fished this waterway since 1977. My first thought though was that I could not believe that this stream had the forage base to support such a large fish. If you know this stream, it wasn't hard to figure out where he was fishing.

 

Mark O'Donnell

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Could not agree more with Mark K. I have canoed and fished this waterway since 1977. My first thought though was that I could not believe that this stream had the forage base to support such a large fish. If you know this stream, it wasn't hard to figure out where he was fishing.

Mark O'Donnell

 

Thank you Mark. I'm sure more people agree but are tired of this subject. While we can split hairs on whats ethical or not, this is the far end of the spectrum.

I'm not a fanatic about the whole spot-river-shhhhh- thing, but there are times that one needs to use a little common sense and restraint....

 

Which I am going to exercise. The best thing for our stream is to let this die.

 

But outdoor writers should do their homework. Almost all private property, VERY limited access. VERY SAD on his part. Too much copy and paste these days.

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Guest pezdek1

I was pointed here by a friend and decided I would pipe up considering my ethics were challenged. For one, I have a picture of the fish held lengthwise along my rod, at which point I measured exactly the point where the fish's mouth was to the butt of the rod and added roughly 1/2" for the tail that was hanging past the rod. The fish is over 20" and easily over 5lbs. The pictures aren't doctored. I could post them here, but then I may get my ethics bashed for posting pictures that reveal the location of where the fish was caught, which I purposely didn't do on the other sites, but then again, I also didn't reveal the location on the river where I caught it, this was revealed by a "local" that saw my post and decided he'd tell everyone where to park, etc on a public forum. If you'd like go on over to the other site and bash him for this. Also if you'd like I can show you other pictures, though, considering I took 4-5 pics and released the beautiful fish back into the river. My father and brother were there as witnesses as well, and they can testify as to the size of this fish. As far as it being a near-record fish, yes it's highly likely that this fish would have been a pound heavier before the spawn and if caught would have been the record. I never claimed to catch the record either, I claimed to catch a big fish that could possibly be the record at some point in a year. As far as my ethics emailing a fishing column in the paper... it's not even worth getting into. If you think it gave any lazy bucket-heads or unethical fishermen the urge to Google to find the location on a map, drive the 55+ miles that I drive to fish that river, and then buy waders, figure out how to work a river rather than their typical lake, and do more than park a chair on the shore and cast live bait, then you're very mistaken indeed. I'm an avid catch and release fisherman. I caught a monster of a fish. I simply emailed a columnist showing him a pic of the fish, plain and simple. Now the bashing of my ethics can continue if you like, that's all fine and dandy. But I am ALL about preserving our fisheries here in Illinois, as well as preserving the smallmouth as it's basically the only thing I ever fish for besides walleye. It's funny how none of you even know me, yet you can bash me, my ethics, and my abilities to judge size, weight, etc. Then again you can bash my ability to read a tape measure or look at a pic and determine where one end of the fish starts and the other ends. I've only been fishing for 20+ years, so I must not know what I'm talking about. Here's that nice little pic of the length of the fish along my rod. It may clear up some of your photo-shop concerns, or it may not. Now... are some of you guys that have fished there for some time angry that you never caught a fish this size from that river, or you angry that I caught a fish this size and was damn proud of my catch? Or maybe you're angry because you're in denial that there's no big fish like this in Northern Illinois' rivers and streams because you haven't personally caught one? Oh and again, the fish was released, not taken to be stuck on my wall, but then again, what ethical angler keeps a fish for the dinner table or keeps a fish for his wall. I'm willing to bet no one on this thread that posted has any fish mounted on their wall whatsoever, or if they do I bet they're all replicas, but then again, my trophy is back swimming around in the river where it belongs. A photo collage and the lure in a frame on my wall that my wife made is trophy enough for me. Oh and as far as the black lines around the fish being an indicator of photoshopping, honestly are you blind? Those are called shadows. When there's sun everything casts them, especially when you're at a specific angle to the sun in order to get a good pic of a fish. Thanks for all your kind sentiments, though.

 

100_1582.jpg

 

100_0720_(600_x_450).jpg

 

Now proceed to bash me for giving the exact location of the fish, something I planned on preventing from the very beginning as the absence of the first pic on the other websites indicates.

 

Or you can proceed to let the issue die, because in all reality it's a non-issue. Just know I'm probably one of the most ethical fishermen you'll ever meet or speak to.

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Guest pezdek1
Could not agree more with Mark K. I have canoed and fished this waterway since 1977. My first thought though was that I could not believe that this stream had the forage base to support such a large fish. If you know this stream, it wasn't hard to figure out where he was fishing.

 

Mark O'Donnell

 

You said it best with the bolded text. If you know the stream, you know the spot, if you don't know the stream, you don't have a clue...

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Regarding size. I could be wrong but I don't believe they are refering to you at all. i did not read it in detail, nor will I. But you should re-read that.

 

Regarding revealing the spot. I'm not criticizing you for that. My criticism revolves around advertising a small stream, with...again, Almost all private property, VERY limited access. And doing so in the worst possible manner.

 

I got to admit, I'm using alot of restraint here, but in respect to all the anglers that paid their dues to hunt down that stream I'm not going to reveal any more details. I would LOVE to post details.

 

 

And not to mention ornery land owners and locals, some of whom are nice enough to do things to your vehicle. It doesn't sound like you know the history of that stream. Do you know it's a Laggerstatten site? Meaning at one point in attracted a LOT of people with shovels. they pissed off a lot of land owners.

 

While we don't have any scientific evidence to indicate that advertising a "NEAR RECORD" fish on two (if not more) of the biggest websites AND the freaking newspaper in the Chicagoland area, might....just might....attract a few people, there common sense might dictate otherwise.

 

Furthur more you have no real scientific evidence to the contrary, though you do cite a reliable scouce. Interesting article on that same site regarding a taste test sampling juvenile smallmouth from various small streams. I think the conclusion was that 12" bass out of rock creek are yummy. Not making that up folks!

 

Clearly an un-biased scource.

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Guest airbornemike
Interesting article on that same site regarding a taste test sampling juvenile smallmouth from various small streams. I think the conclusion was that they are yummy.

 

Clearly an un-biased scource.

Uh-Oh! :D

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We aren't about to get into a pissing match over websites, that's for sure...or I'll simply take the whole thread down and get back to business.

 

What I will say is that the ISA message boards are, and always were intended to be used by the members of our fishing/conservation organization.

 

Somebody in the beginning just didn't (and couldn't) know that 90% of the members don't pay attention to "message boards". Never register and never will.

 

5 people posting out of 600 members don't represent the official standpoint of the ISA, nor does that of any individual officer posting, myself included.

People have opinions, regardless of what the group does or doesn't "adopt" as it's protocol and policy.

The members that do post on the site are passionate to the point of registering and talking about the issues. The importance of that is significant in itself.

 

It's called common sense.

Conservation doesn't happen on a message board, it occurs in the real world.

It only gets discussed here....good, bad or indifferent.

Mark Kasick knows something about this.

He has busted his buns "out there" for many years.

You'll find others here as well that will state opinions based on their real world experience.

Everything else is just talk on a message board, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience with this fish and the facts regarding it.

The rest is just forum fodder.

Keep it real and the thread remains.

Stray from that it goes away.

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Guest pezdek1

Yes, Mark I know the history of it being a fossil site. Homework was done before we ever decided to fish it. Yes, some quality fishermen might decide to try their luck fishing it, but as I said it's my opinion that it will not attract any bucket-heads and unethical losers. If none of the length/size of the fish comments were directed at me, then all I did was prove that the fish is indeed as long as I stated, but I never lashed out at anyone, and never attacked/bashed anyone, just defended what I felt was a bashing of my knowledge and ethics as a fisherman. If you really do go back and read through all of the posts in detail many of them came after posts regarding the pictures of the fish. I'm also not here to burn any bridges or create any animosity. I was just defending what I thought was bashing for the catch (and release) of a trophy fish and reporting of that to an online community which I enjoy communicating with and fishing with. As far as the source, I never cited a source here. I did cite a source with regards to someone who shares the same opinions I do, but that was on another site, and has no bearing whatsoever with what I've said on this one. I'm entitled to my opinion, though, and my opinion is that it will not really attract much more fishing pressure than was already in that area. It is what it is I guess, but if we want to walk the road of reports being posted on the internet and that it shouldn't be done, then we can easily state that none of these websites should exist at all, because that's the whole purpose of them. Don't many people who post on this site give reports and images of their outings and catches? The whole point to these sites are to give reports, help people out, give information, share your adventures and outings and successes as well as failures. Can't things of this nature be discussed without the personal attacks, though? I thought as ethical fishermen and adults we could all discuss things of this nature in a courteous and respectable way. Anyways, as I said before, someone else released the information regarding the area I was fishing, not me. I kept all that information private for that reason. Those who know of the river and fish it would know where I was, but people who have never heard of it or don't spend the time that I put in researching new fishing opportunities would never even think twice about it.

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Can't things of this nature be discussed without the personal attacks, though?

That's the danger of providing message boards.

It isn't specific to any group or entity.

Put up a message board, and you are going to get what you ask for- opinions aplenty.

 

The only question is "how" those opinions will be moderated, whether they are moderated and more opinions on why they are moderated.

 

Message boards suck.

 

Twitter is great- nobody can talk back.

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Guest pezdek1

That's fine regarding Mark and his hard work Mike. I never doubt anyone's knowledge or the work they've put in until I have reason to, and I don't have any reason to in this situation. I've been a registered member of this site for a couple months, didn't really post much, but did a lot of reading. I also did a lot of reading over the past 6 months since I've found the site before I registered on it. I understand this site is all about the conservation of smallmouth and their habitats, and that's why I come here, and why I'll post here. I really enjoy fishing for smallmouth and I'm all about the conservation of this great fish, as proven by the release of a true trophy and the release of every single smallmouth I've ever caught. I fully plan on keeping it real and straight and discussing this like it should be discussed. I don't plan on making any personal attacks or holding any animosity against someone for doubting my catch, just wanted to prove the fish was what I said it was. I am a concerned fishermen just like everyone else here. I agree conservation doesn't happen on the message boards, it happens in the real world. I'm all for it. If I weren't unemployed right now I'd be more than willing to help in any way I can. I make my donations and purchase my memberships to different organizations whenever I can. I hope that we can continue these discussions regarding these issues without anything get out of hand. I, for one, know I don't plan on losing my temper over a few people doubting a fish I caught, I just wanted to express my opinions and get my side of things out in the open. I do plan on being involved in this website as much as I can be and hope these one or two posts regarding some passionate issues don't create any problems or animosity towards me. I avoid conflict as long as it's possible to avoid it, so you have no reason to worry about me Mike. I thank you for your insight, though, and I'm glad there's people like you and Mark and all of the other members that share the same ideas, opinions, and feelings about smallmouth and our fisheries that I do.

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If you do come down, let me know and we can do some fishing.

 

Thanks for the offer Andy. Looks like I won't be heading down there after all. Perhaps in the future...and then I'll surely let you know!

 

For "everyday measuring" where eeking out the last fraction of an inch is unimportant (as opposed to measuring a possible record breaker)the vertical method is sufficient and doesn't risk harming the fish by laying it down which might remove some of its protective slime and definitely would if it started flopping around.

 

I agree to a point. I personally don't like holding a large smallie vertically by its lower jaw. Even if studies have shown absolutely no harm....it's a choice I have made and will try to stick with. As far as a vertical measurement against the premarked rod....I've seen far too many fishermen and have heard of others that give a quick eyeball at the tail (butt end of the rod) and then proceed to lift the fish up about 2" when measuring. Not sure of this move is done naturally or intentionally. How important is a fisherman's honesty? That will be a subject of another thread.

 

 

I was pointed here by a friend and decided I would pipe up considering my ethics were challenged.

Now proceed to bash me for giving the exact location of the fish, something I planned on preventing from the very beginning as the absence of the first pic on the other websites indicates.

Or you can proceed to let the issue die, because in all reality it's a non-issue.

 

The "issue" as you call it would've died if you had not posted your response.

 

I'm guessing you forgot to read the part in the website registration agreements about the forums being for ISA members only?

 

As far as your use of derogatory words such as 'lazy bucket-heads'... We don't put folks down on this site. We aren't your average website. We like to stay a cut above the rest.

 

I highly doubt anyone's jealousy lead to questioning the measurement of your fish. I'm assuming you have extremely large hands that perhaps caused some confusion. Nice catch and release. I don't why the link was put up to begin with. It's obviously a small stream and the pics give away a specific spot. And that, kind sir is another thing that goes against web site rules.

 

What I will say is that the ISA message boards are, and always were intended to be used by the members of our fishing/conservation organization.

 

Well said Mr. Clifford!

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Guest pezdek1

Thanks for the clarification regarding the site Mike and Don. In all honesty if my knowledge or presence is not wanted or warranted based upon having to be a member I will refrain from anymore posting until I have the ability to become a member of the ISA. As I said, I never intended to create any animosity or problems, just wanted my side of the story in the open. Thanks!!!

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Fair enough, sir pezdek.

If you continue to post, PLEASE use a first name at the very least....that is a registration agreement.

I can change that for you if need be.

 

Remember....

Every message board has it's own set of "guidelines".

My intent in following up here was simply to say that as long as we're discussing a thread that I happened to start, conservation is going to take precedence over all else.

That's the platform I will relate to.

I do understand your intent and appreciate the clarification.

 

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until I have the ability to become a member of the ISA. As I said, I never intended to create any animosity or problems, just wanted my side of the story in the open. Thanks!!!

 

And we would welcome you aboard as a member if you do decide to join.

 

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