ScottP Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 Does anyone have any insight at what levels the Vermillion becomes safe for wading? I'm looking at the UGSG data from Pontiac, and it looks both too high and too fast, but I don't have any experience with that particular river. https://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/uv?site_no=05554500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Durham Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Scott, I'm by no means an expert on this, but I always look for median flow or lower on a river to gauge whether safe for wading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannym Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Depends on the section. I use the nearest gauge to me and wade when it is under 400 Cfs. You can wade at higher levels. I am just not comfy wading in the faster sections near my home base. I don't go too far upstream from me. So not sure near Pontiac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannym Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 She was so close. Back up to around 2500CFS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe R Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 Best advice is what Bart says ...in general if you don't know the water well just reference the median or the mean level of historical river levels/flow for that particular day. Once you get above the mean and nearing the 75% percentile chances are water will be stirred up and stained and not worth fishing anyways https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/il/nwis/current/?type=flow&group_key=basin_cd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannym Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 8 hours ago, Joe R said: Best advice is what Bart says ...in general if you don't know the water well just reference the median or the mean level of historical river levels/flow for that particular day. Once you get above the mean and nearing the 75% percentile chances are water will be stirred up and stained and not worth fishing anyways https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/il/nwis/current/?type=flow&group_key=basin_cd I would be careful with rules of thumb. The median on the Vermillion on 4/14 was 1000cfs. I won’t consider wading at that level or even near it. Especially when the river has lots of grade, as does this river. Even worse when you wade rivers with unexpected boulders and deep pockets. It is a case by case decision based on intel and experience, IMO. I certainly have lots of respect for this river. It can humble you pretty quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe R Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 21 minutes ago, mannym said: I would be careful with rules of thumb. The median on the Vermillion on 4/14 was 1000cfs. I won’t consider wading at that level or even near it. Especially when the river has lots of grade, as does this river. Even worse when you wade rivers with unexpected boulders and deep pockets. It is a case by case decision based on intel and experience, IMO. I certainly have lots of respect for this river. It can humble you pretty quick. Common sense always prevails but who steps into a danger river to wade. You assess the situation when you get there. Wading is relative and wading may just be creating casting distance and not getting into water very deep. Main point is if you have no intelligence on a river and you were considering a general rule of thumb can be look at median gauge. For the vermillion I've only been a few times and I actually write down on paper gauge heights when I fished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannym Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 I would be comfortable using median if the river didnt have so much variation. Case in point, median in August is under 100cfs. April it is 1000cfs or better. Clarity can be unfishable at 150cfs just like 1100 cfs. Common sense and all of the other points go without saying. But to try and provide a reply that both keeps the community safe while being productive, i would shy away from the suggested rule of thumb. At least on a river like the big V. My original reply was based on 20 years of living walking distance from said river. Started fishing it ten years before that. I would be interested to hear John G perspective as he has surely fished this river more than i have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-mo Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, mannym said: I would be comfortable using median if the river didnt have so much variation. Case in point, median in August is under 100cfs. April it is 1000cfs or better. Clarity can be unfishable at 150cfs just like 1100 cfs. I made that same point a couple weeks ago to a new wader when recommending the usgs water data site. The gauge data is seasonal . I think it says that somewhere on the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe R Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 Manny do you know why the vermilion varies so much? All local rivers vary seasonally do but why vermilion more so? Usually you can associate gradient to faster draining rivers. Last two fall trips passing through to and from Iowa i waded leonore gauge at 3.8ft other time was 4.4ft both were manageable. Another time when I was passing through it was close to 6ft and I didn't bother to stop for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannym Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 7 hours ago, Joe R said: Manny do you know why the vermilion varies so much? All local rivers vary seasonally do but why vermilion more so? Usually you can associate gradient to faster draining rivers. Last two fall trips passing through to and from Iowa i waded leonore gauge at 3.8ft other time was 4.4ft both were manageable. Another time when I was passing through it was close to 6ft and I didn't bother to stop for that. I ask myself the same question every year when i have to wait till late summer to wade my favorite stretches. I believe the grade is the primary river characteristic that causes the big difference. I also believe the river doesn't see as much water after ag fields are well into the growing season. The crops along with drain tile lower the water table. So when we get a good rain, the fields act like a sponge and soak up more than it allows to run off. From my understanding, some of the best producing ag grounds fall within the watershed. Having worked in water management for a few years, I can assure you, there are miles and miles of tile in the watershed. Once spring rains are drained, the subsurface can be pretty dry down to about 3 ft. Another characteristic i wonder about is the presence of the LaSalle anticline that runs along it for most of its course. How does that affect the river levels? I believe that is why there is enough grade to allow up to class three rapids in the Lowell to the mouth stretch. It also exposed bedrock. Just to be clear, most of my experience wading is from Lowell down. This is the section that has the most grade. It is dangerous if you don't have experience reading rivers. If asked, i will be conservative with my opinions in the name of safety. That is not to say it cant be fished. I just don’t because I can just as easily fish other more wadable rivers near by. If the original question was about floating, we would be having a different conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe R Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 Rather odd rivers that I fish mainly like Kish and Des plaines, and tribs, can go to summer time levels in winter. They can get very low which in skinnier parts can be a challenge to fish in harshest winters. Looking at long term graphs for V this doesn't seem to be the case. Just odd. Like you said looking at this more you have to be careful with refercing median for V it's such a seasonal river certainly not the norm for northern Illinois rivers. It's not like there are gates holding water back like on the fox where they may drain down the chain of lakes seasonally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannym Posted April 29, 2019 Report Share Posted April 29, 2019 Probably could have fished a few spots, even a little shore fishing or canoe-kayak paddling. The hook that starts the clock all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gillio Posted April 30, 2019 Report Share Posted April 30, 2019 Somehow I missed this post. What Manny is saying makes sense on this stream, especially in the lower reaches where the river has a steeper grade and is basically in a gorge. Like Manny, I have limited experience upstream toward Pontiac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannym Posted May 1, 2019 Report Share Posted May 1, 2019 Today is not a good day to wade...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gillio Posted May 2, 2019 Report Share Posted May 2, 2019 It always amazes me that there are fish that thrive in a river that looks like that so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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