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Mark K

Clouser Leader Kit- Any Interest?

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So I bought all the clear Berkley Big Game spools to make my own knotted leaders.  The 6-8 weight recommended recipe.

5 spools at almost $7 each.  Walmart was the cheapest place and it took me going to several to get the right sizes.

http://smallmouthflybox.blogspot.com/2012/07/leader-construction.html

There is no way I will ever use all this line, and I generally don't use mono on my conventional rods and this is 10 lifetime supplies of leader material.

If I can find spools and figure out a way to wind equal lengths on, say a couple a 100 yards or so to split the spools up, is there any interest in splitting these up with me?  I am not looking to make a profit, I would just have to figure out what cost would be.

 

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I'm so bad at my knots still, ugh

I still buy pre-made leaders

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20 hours ago, Steve S. said:

I'm so bad at my knots still, ugh

I still buy pre-made leaders

 

There are tools that you can use to tie a blood knot.

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It's a shame that we didn't speak beforehand because I could have given you that mono line if you didn't mind it in their greenish color.  Btw, I know the traditional knot used is a blood knot but for years I've used a double surgeon's knot as it is easier to tie and is smaller.  Also my Lefty  formula is simplified as well, 40,30,20,10 but turns over large flies well.  Eveeybody has their own special recipe, ha.

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Mark,

Thanks for the offer and thanks for reminding us of this great leader design that in buried in one of Bob Clouser's  books. I would take you up on this if I had not already made my lifetime investment in leader material. Since I can also use the 40, 30, and 20 lb stuff for weed guards on flies I tie and the 15, 12. and 10 on my baitcasters, I am not stuck with 100s of yards of line that I may never use. I have used this "big butt" designs for some time. They are great for turning over bulky flies as the article says.

Anyone who has not tried the design should take you up on the offer. They should learn to  tie the classic Blood Knot and Perfection Loop anyway.  Up to 1950 these knots were go to knots when tapered leaders were constructed from segments of drawn silk gut.  There had to be a lot of knots because the max length of a strand was about 15-20 inches. The knots are still among the best for mono-mono, mono-flouro, and braid-mono. The perfection loop can't be trusted on super lines however.  A fixed loop for braid is another question.

I should mention that like Rob, I have simplified my big butts based on Lefty' advice. It is a 4- 2,-1 leader. The numbers give rough proportions for both the lb test and the length. My  basic leader is 4 ft of 40#, 2 ft of 20#, and 1 ft  of 12#. I will put 2 ft of 10# on the end for a tippet.  This gives me a nice 9 ft leader with only 3 knots to catch debris.  You can scale up or down as needed like 30-15-8 with 4-6# tippet for your panfish rod. 

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On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 7:48 AM, Mike G said:

Mark,

Thanks for the offer and thanks for reminding us of this great leader design that in buried in one of Bob Clouser's  books. I would take you up on this if I had not already made my lifetime investment in leader material. Since I can also use the 40, 30, and 20 lb stuff for weed guards on flies I tie and the 15, 12. and 10 on my baitcasters, I am not stuck with 100s of yards of line that I may never use. I have used this "big butt" designs for some time. They are great for turning over bulky flies as the article says.

Anyone who has not tried the design should take you up on the offer. They should learn to  tie the classic Blood Knot and Perfection Loop anyway.  Up to 1950 these knots were go to knots when tapered leaders were constructed from segments of drawn silk gut.  There had to be a lot of knots because the max length of a strand was about 15-20 inches. The knots are still among the best for mono-mono, mono-flouro, and braid-mono. The perfection loop can't be trusted on super lines however.  A fixed loop for braid is another question.

I should mention that like Rob, I have simplified my big butts based on Lefty' advice. It is a 4- 2,-1 leader. The numbers give rough proportions for both the lb test and the length. My  basic leader is 4 ft of 40#, 2 ft of 20#, and 1 ft  of 12#. I will put 2 ft of 10# on the end for a tippet.  This gives me a nice 9 ft leader with only 3 knots to catch debris.  You can scale up or down as needed like 30-15-8 with 4-6# tippet for your panfish rod. 

Thanks Mike.  I like simple.

I have 6wt that I use a lot.   I don't throw gigantic flies.  The largest being , say the bigger boogle bug and I also throw the smaller boogle bug with it too.   What would you or anyone recommend for a leader?

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Knot tying is a skill. Take time to be precise, just as we do while tying our favorite patterns. Perfect practice makes perfect 😎

Go to globalflyfisher.com. There are many leader formulas to choose from. 

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I tied a few, before running into a problem with my left hand.  I have been noodling around with a  guitar which is what I think caused it.  Actually had my hand "lock up" tying blood knots, specifically that muscle controls your pinky abductor digiti minimus.  This goes back a couple months and it's still bugging me.  My hand actually starts pulsing where you can see the muscle spasming like an alien is going to spring out..  That happens out of the blue.  It pretty freaky.

I don't find the blood knot tough, especially with a jig I made.   I think it's hard to get the spacing right.  I casted one I made and it laid out a bug just fine.  The first knot is gigantic, I can guarantee it would be a nightmare in the Kank in floating weeds, but again anything is.

I think I am going to try the Rob suggestion.

 

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Uni to uni is all I use. Not sure if that's the same as Rob's suggestion. Easy to tie even in low light. I use the uni knot for terminal too.

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I agree with John, the double Uni knot is a fine one for connecting two pieces of line and the only reason I don't use it more is that I can tie a double or triple surgeon's knot in less than half the time (for me that is).  One comment on the double Uni, don't feel like you have to pass the tag end of each line thru the loop 4 times as is often stated when attaching two heavier pieces such as 20 lb to 30 lb.  Three passes is more than adequate and if you're careful, you can get by with just two passes in order to create a smaller knot, meaning you might catch less foreign material on the water.  You're not likely going to break off your leader at these heavier line junctions anyway,  since your line will probably break off at your fly and only very occasionally at the tippet junction, in my case the 10 lb to 20 lb test.  A while back I experimented with coating each knot of my leader with a drop of UV glue and rotating the line horizontally to create a smooth football like covering and then curing with UV light.  The knots looked neater but didn't hold any better and hung up just as much "stuff".  YMMV

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Good stuff. I’ve been having issues with blood knots of late. For me it’s failing eyes. I’m going to have to expand my knot repertoire. 

That sounds like an awful condition for you Mark. I hope you can find some relief for it. 

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5 hours ago, Jim Wright said:

Good stuff. I’ve been having issues with blood knots of late. For me it’s failing eyes. I’m going to have to expand my knot repertoire. 

That sounds like an awful condition for you Mark. I hope you can find some relief for it. 

Thanks.

I made a tool like this

https://www.hookandbullet.com/gear/fly-fishing-leaders-tippets/frog-hair-blood-knot-tool/

It makes the whole thing a  lot neater and wearier.  But overall I think that 40-30lb connection and the next one is way too big.

I am going to experiment with this stuff and a smaller knot.

https://www.amazon.com/Loon-Outdoors-UV-Knot-Sense/dp/B01EONA0R6

It's like 30lb test- how freaking strong a knot do you really need!!??

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Thanks.

I made a tool like this

https://www.hookandbullet.com/gear/fly-fishing-leaders-tippets/frog-hair-blood-knot-tool/

It makes the whole thing a  lot neater and wearier.  But overall I think that 40-30lb connection and the next one is way too big.

I am going to experiment with this stuff and a smaller knot.

https://www.amazon.com/Loon-Outdoors-UV-Knot-Sense/dp/B01EONA0R6

It's like 30lb test- how freaking strong a knot do you really need!!??

 

 

Good stuff! Thanks 

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Another simple blood knot tool that I would use while on the water because of its small size making for easier carry is a toothpick.   This fellow already has a quick video so I won't go into it but it works well on thinner test line.  Heavier line is generally more "coily" and more difficult to work with.

 

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On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:43 PM, John Loebach said:

Uni to uni is all I use. Not sure if that's the same as Rob's suggestion. Easy to tie even in low light. I use the uni knot for terminal too.

I can tie back to back to uni's in my sleep.  That's a great knot.

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Rob beat me to it.  That toothpick is the ultimate Blood Knot Tool.

It is good to see an Oldie like the Blood Knot get some respect. It is a true survivor that connects us to fly fishing history.  The two oldest books I have on fly fishing show this knot.  They were published in 1940 even before I was born. Back then it recommended for connecting strands of silk gut to form tapered leaders. Sound familiar? The knot survived the transition to nylon monofilament around 1950 because it did not slip and provided excellent strength unlike many of the other knots which, used with nylon mono, slipped or reduced line breaking strength by 50% or more. It continues to gain honors in the 21st Century. A few years ago it edged out the Uni-uni in the Knot Wars though, because the margin was slight, the judge called it a draw and recommended the uni-uni saying it was easier to tie. This is not true for me because I have been using the Blood Knot for over 60 years. And here we are today discussing that same knot.

The Blood Knot and the Uni-uni are similar in that they are mirror image. You do the same thing with both tag ends. Think of the Blood Knot as two clinch knots. I am surprised that no one has mentioned that these two knots have a cousin in the Nail-nail Knot. Because of the way it is tied, it comes out a little sleeker than the other two. But without a good aid this one is hardest to tie. AJ McClane pushed it in the '60s.

Thank you for your patience. Now I will reward you by showing you the 2 cent Blood Knot /Nail Knot Tool.

45425388995_d764ea2bf3_b.jpgQTknottool by Michael Gerharz, on Flickr

The cotton swab with hollow plastic shaft costs $2.00 per 100. Cut the cotton tip off one end. Coat the cotton on the other end with epoxy to provide a good grip. Trim a little off of that end to expose opening of the tube.

Use it as the toothpick for the Blood Knot. Use it as a hollow tube to pass the tag end back under the Nail Knot wraps.

PS You will find the swabs in the cosmetic section at your local chain drug store.

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i prefer the little red drink mixing straws  for nail knots .  one reason to go to the drinking hole.    gee honey i forgot my knot tying tool again 

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Rich,

Are they stiff enough to twist a Blood Knot? Coffee shops often give out similar straws for stirring. I won't tell your wife.

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